Brassicas

[dbltree]

Re: Brassicas - August 1st Planting

I noticed the "chewed" up clover and oats doesn't leave a perfectly clean bed which after seeing your plots must be ok then? This is what mine looked like after tilling the clover last week before the alfalfa planting and I was curious if it would be a problem.

We also have a straight cylinder roller..not cultipacker..just a big large cylinder! Will this firm the seed bed too much or is it OK? That's all I've got at this point.

No need for a "perfect" seedbed, all we need is seed/soil contact and a firm seedbed.

The roller is the next best thing to a cultipacker, as long as it's not to heavy and actually "packs/compacts" the soil it will be fine.

A friend of mine uses a lawn roller that you fill with water but he doesn't fill it up so it isn't so heavy.

An ATV can work also on small plots...just drive back and forth until the surface has been firmed with the tires.

The key is "firm" not "packed"...watch auction sales and classifieds for an old cultipacker and pick one up when you can.

 

[m_kat]

Re: Brassicas - August 1st Planting

dbltree,


Thanks for putting this side by side comparison together! The results should be very interesting.

 

[dbltree]

Re: Brassicas - August 1st Planting

Any suggestions which Brassicas is most tolerant of bad soil? It was mentioned that Alice was a tough clover even in poor soil, wondered if any Brassicas fit that description as well.

That's a great question...that I don't really have the answer to

I have not noticed any varieties being advertised as being tolerant of poor soil.

I do know that "root" type brassicas (turnips and forage radish)are very helpful in improving your soil. Especially compacted clay soils. The root will actually help break up subsoil and loosen your soil, allowing moisture and nutrients to flow thru instead of running off.

One thing for sure...they don't like dry soil and I have some real miserable poor clay soil areas to test them, so if anything shines or stands out I'll let you know.

I finally received my Wintergreens seed and nannyslayer has some bullseye brassica seed for me to try. Give nannyslayer a shout if you want to give his seed a try.

 

[buck160]

Re: Brassicas - August 1st Planting

wow dbltree, looks great and it has been very helpful, i also appreciate your suggestions on my post.

 

[huntdoc]

Re: Brassicas - August 1st Planting

Thanks dbl! I have a spot that stays fairly moist so I plan to throw some seed out soon. I'll try to track which varieties make it.

 

[dbltree]

Re: Brassicas - August 1st Planting

well, the giant turnips have decided to call it a day. they are showing lots of wilt and half the plants are turning brown.. so it is safe to assume they were a 60 day turnip (end of may until now). i tilled some of them under with the bean stubs (darn deer)and planted rape/turnips within the range of my bow stand, and lightly scratched the rest of the beans and planted rape/wheat. i left about a 100 x 30 foot section alone to see what becomes of the giant turnips. kind of curious if the deer eat them.

That's kinda what I figured but know we know for sure...thanks for updating us on how they did.

The batch you just planted should do the trick!

 

[dbltree]

Re: Brassicas - August 1st Planting

These are some of the last brassicas I planted and it hasn't rained a drop since I planted them. Germination varies widely on this plot which contains all of the mixtures noted previously in this thread.

It's all coming up just some areas slower then others

Closer examination shows the tiny brassicas popping up even in the dry soil

It's always interesting to see it come up in untilled areas where the moisture in dead mulch is enough to germinate seed.

Right now quite frankly I can't tell any of it apart

The pictures show the mix from Welters, Bulls-Eye and Maxi-Rack, Biologic and Tecomate. The Wintergreens arrived later and so isn't up yet.

This plot was in field rye and red clover...note that there are few if any weeds. Allelopathic effects of rye in inhibiting weed growth are a very obvious positive reason to plant field rye rather then wheat and use it in your plot rotation.

On the subject of weeds in brassicas... please note that applying 2-4D amine just before planting seed can have enough residual effect to prevent brassica seed from germinating. DO NOT apply 2-4D amine to an area to be planted to brassicas within a week of planting. 2-4D LV4 may not be a problem

I often see people advocating the mixing of cereal grains and brassicas...something that I have never seen work very well. Brassicas form a dense thick canopy and are very competitive (look at the pictures.... )
They will either be suffocated by grains or clovers or suffocate the grains and clovers!

It just depends on which on gets a leg up on the other. Why mix everything??? Plant side by side plots that you can rotate and you'll be far better off, producing maximum forage and more naturally sustainable food plots. You still offer deer and wildlife a variety but just not all in one heap

I'll be posting pics of the other brassica plots soon and we'll keep an eye on them thru out the growing/hunting season to see how they do.

Nannyslayer is handling Bulls-Eye Brassica mix which is 50% Winfred Forage Brassica and 50% Hunter Forage Brassica available in 2# packages for roughly 10 bucks a bag.

Good product at a reasonable price if you have a need for brassica seed give him a shout.

Find more info on these seeds an pictures of these brassicas below.

PGG Seeds - Forage Brassica info
Winfred Brassica

At ninty days

Hunter Brassia

If any of you have pics to share of your own brassicas please share them with us here. If you have trouble posting email them to me at dbltree2000@yahoo.com

 

[dbltree]

Re: Brassicas - August 20th

These are pics from my August 1st brassica planting...that desperately needs rain. It has rained scarcely a drop since I planted them which causes very uneven germination.

This is across the plot which contains all the types/brands previously listed.

This shows the Bulls-Eye mix on the right, Biologic Maximum in the center and Tecomate to the left. The BE and Tecomate are way ahead of the Maximum right now but remember these mixes contain all different types of rapes, turnips and hybrid versions of each, so growth will vary.

This is the BE/Maxi-Rack mix up close

Biologic Maximum

Tecomate (note the red clover in this mix coming up as well)

Welter Mix...in all of these pics you can see the rapidly decaying organic matter I tilled in as well.

Where there was more moisture there was quicker germination while other areas are just now coming up.

We have an excellent chance of 3/4" of rain over the next 2-3 days which should get them growing better. Brassicas DO NOT like dry sandy soils, the prefer the same soils that clover does...moist heavy soil.

As I noted in the previous plot pics...no particular variety, brand or mix has really shined or appeared outstanding but they have a lot of growing to do.

The sooner they canopy the better they will be able to suppress weeds and hold soil moisture much in the same manner as soybeans do.

What appears to be "grass" growing is actually the oats I tilled under...they re-sprouted as I expected. We'll see how they compete.

Long season kale and swedes have started to reach above the berseem clover...barely

Kale and Swede

You can see why I don't advocate mixing clovers and brassicas

Although in a late summer clover/brassica mix the clover will not have time to over power the brassicas.

Somethings go together...somethings don't and I have yet to see an "outstanding" mix of brassicas and anything

Generally when we see a great brassica patch it is a stand alone plot and looking at these plots you can see that it would be difficult to impossible for any other plant to compete with them.

 

[Crimson Arrows]

Re: Brassicas - August 20th

I'll try and post pics tonight or Thursday of my DER, oats, and red clover. I plantedthe DER per Pauls info on the posts and suggestions. I planted them on July 27th and like Paul said, no rain in SE since. In any case, it is coming up and I am really impressed!!! However, I did plant red clover to add nitrogen when plowed but may just frost seed whites back in come winter. Depends if the brassicas cause a problem but only half the plot has it (#1 planted of DER). I added no fertilizer, RR or anything else. Just tilled, planted, and rolled! I had some oats left and thought what the heck..add it to the clover side and they came up good as well. Bad news is, as the pic shows, they are eating it already which means by Oct 1 it will be too mature. Live and learn. It seems big tracks in my experience, although not full proof, belong to big bucks, we will see what the cams show in the next few weeks.

 

[dbltree]

Re: Brassicas - August 20th

u.p.bowhunter sent these pics of his brassicas, Biologic Maximum mix planted in late May.

You can see here they are knee high!

Good lookin' stuff for sure! Brassicas planted that early here would be likely to bolt and become unpalatable, but our growing season is longer and summers get pretty hot. Take some more pics this fall and let us know how usage is

 

[dbltree]

Re: Brassicas - August 20th

Couple pics of Dwarf Essex Rape sent in by huntyak, planted a few weeks ago.

Like mine they needed rain bad and we're getting a nice steady rain today!! /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif

Dwarf Essex Rape is one of the least expensive but most preferred brassicas. I found in my sided by side tests they chose it first and grazed it heavily long before a frost.

DER is also the most tolerant of heat and drought

Dwarf Essex Rape

Less then 8 bucks an acre and you could plant it with a rake in killed sod if you had a small area to plant...just don't expect it to last long.....

 

[dbltree]

Re: Brassicas - August 25th

Now that we had had a little rain the brassicas have taken off!

Compare this to the pics from a week ago...

Now this is the part I get a kick out of... look at these pics and tell me which ones are "high priced big named pretty pictures on the bag" seed...and which ones are just inexpensive brassica seed from nannyslayer or Welters????

So far...nothing different but the...price /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

Some seed is still coming up so one more rain wouldn't hurt a thing

Now this patch is nearly 3 weeks old so you can see how limited we would be if we plant in early September.

Just like planting grains we have to watch timing so that we get the most growth before cold weather but at the same time not have them get mature and start bolting on us.

Late July thru mid August puts those of us in the Midwest in that 60-90 time frame that is perfect for short season brassicas.

I will be planting some left over brassica seed at different time intervals and with different grains just for comparison as well.

 

[dbltree]

Re: Brassicas - August 27th

Good high quality brassica seed can be purchased for anywhere from $12 to $60 an acre. Beyond the price...what's the difference??

I walked thru this plot I planted the first of August that contains, various brassica seeds from Welters, Bulls-eye from nannyslayer and Maxi-Rack, Maximum from Biologic and Tecomates brassica mix.

Deer have already been feasting on this forage (unwilling to wait for "frost to sweeten" it... ) so I snapped pics of each variety or mix showing that deer have shown no preference for one or the other.

Can you tell which mix is which??????????

Obviously they like it all...regardless of price or pretty pictures on the bag...

The Wintergreen seed arrived late but it is coming up as well

 

[Limb Chicken]

Re: Brassicas - August 27th

Planted August 26th. Looks pretty good but have a couple places I must have drug the harrow over one to many times...

This is hand spread and drug with a harrow. A timely rain was nice as well. This is Hunters Specialties premium fall blend.

 

[dbltree]

Re: Brassicas - August 27th

This is Hunters Specialties premium fall blend.

Sweet! That's one I haven't included in my "tests" so we can add another to the list.


Looks like it's doing just fine too!

 

[risto2351]

Re: Brassicas - August 27th

Well I don't know what to expect yet.

I planted these the week after the shed gathering.

As you can see in the upper right hand it funnels to another little one.

The second one Jr. and little missy are spreading some new seed out to try and help fill in the spots.

Here the boss is laying down the law.

I planted both of these hunting plots real early and they are real spotty. They are both new ones this year and the rain and temps are not helping. I fertilized them when I planted them.

I put a little more seed on even though I know it will not grow to its full potential.


Will the seed that did not sprout eventually sprout when it gets the right moisture?

If not maybe some winter wheat to fill in the areas??

 

[Crimson Arrows]

Re: Brassicas - August 27th

Brassicas probably won't get grow to the mature point this far in but I think rye grain would be an exceelent choice to rake into the spotty areas!!

 

[dbltree]

Re: Brassicas - September 15th

Will the seed that did not sprout eventually sprout when it gets the right moisture?

Unless it sprouted and then died from lack of moisture....let us know if you got rain and if that helped or not. We've had nearly a foot of rain down here and just enough at the right times after planting.

Even then I had some spotty places at first because it was so dry.

UP Bowhunter sent in a pic of his brassicas...no lack of moisture up there apparently!

Good lookin' stuff but he's concerned if there will be any left when season opens! Look at the one he's holding!!

Brassicas love moist fertile soil and will really go to town if they have both. His Biologic brassicas have done well for him and obviously the deer approve!

 

[dbltree]

Re: Brassicas - September 15th

My brassicas are about 6 weeks old now and this plot contains at least four different "brand mixes" including my own "brassica concoction" from Welters

Can you tell any difference?

This plot is literally surrounded by lush alfalfa, soybeans, corn as well as oat and clover plots.

At this point none of it has been touched...so "brand -X- or -Y-" doesn't mean they will eat it any better...

Now...those previous pics, the brassicas are nearly knee high and were planted the first of August.

These were planted the first of Sept...

These are some I broadcasted in soybeans

It's only two weeks until opening day and while these brassicas will grow some you can see why planting them with cereal grains in early fall isn't the best plan.

Planting in soys can work but mid August might be best and many soys will be to thick and canopied

Those were along an edge where they have some sunlight

We'll keep an eye on progress and usage as fall progresses...

 

[Fishbonker]

Re: Brassicas - September 15th

Here are a couple of pics of my 08 turnips. If you look closely you will see a difference between the left side and the right. The left side is standard purple top and the right is a forage mix called Bullyseye that Nanny sells. Nothing different prep wise between sides. Same fertilizer, tried to keep seeding rates the same, both side are wayyy over seeded.

I haven’t pulled any up to check on bulb formation but I would expect the purple tops to have better bulbs because the forage type is grown for it’s leaves. If that isn’t right Nanny or Dbltree can correct me.

Still no forage activity by the deer. Lots of tracks but no nipped stems. Hopefully after it gets cold.

I have to give Muddy and JNRBronc a big shout out for getting them put in for me. What should have taken a couple of hours took about six. The crap that was mowed was so thick on the ground that the disc wouldn’t cut through it. We ended up hooking up my way old two bottom trip plow that took us forever to get set up right, then disked in the 13-13-13, packed, seeded, packed and waited a week for rain.

You can read a little more about the plot in The Iowa Bowhunter.

Thanks again guys.

The 'Bonker