dbltree
Super Moderator
Oct 29th, 2013
Andrew sent pics and story...
Sometimes it's far better to hear from others and I certainly enjoy hearing success stories like Andrew's!
Thanks and Amen Andy!
The power of winter rye can not be underestimated...crop insurance for plotters!
My friend Skip sent in pics a while back...brassicas look great!
Hunt safe everyone and enjoy this great outdoors God created for us! :way:
Andrew sent pics and story...
Sometimes it's far better to hear from others and I certainly enjoy hearing success stories like Andrew's!
Thanks and Amen Andy!
The power of winter rye can not be underestimated...crop insurance for plotters!
My friend Skip sent in pics a while back...brassicas look great!
Hunt safe everyone and enjoy this great outdoors God created for us! :way:
Paul,
Just want to say "thanks"! Even though my plots could have done better this year (drought and first year ever of plotting)... they far exceeded my expectations, mostly due to all the information that I've picked up from these threads. Brassicas look good, and even though the winter rye is thin, the deer are HAMMERING it. The real payoff was my first sit this past weekend with my son, for youth season. We saw 6 -10 deer, several bucks and just had a blast. Wouldn't have been the same had I not gotten hooked on plotting. It was really satisfying to know that we turned some scrub ground into a highly productive, deer attracting area.
Just wanted to say thanks for all the help / advice.
Steve P.
St. Louis, MO
Just want to say "thanks"! Even though my plots could have done better this year (drought and first year ever of plotting)... they far exceeded my expectations, mostly due to all the information that I've picked up from these threads. Brassicas look good, and even though the winter rye is thin, the deer are HAMMERING it. The real payoff was my first sit this past weekend with my son, for youth season. We saw 6 -10 deer, several bucks and just had a blast. Wouldn't have been the same had I not gotten hooked on plotting. It was really satisfying to know that we turned some scrub ground into a highly productive, deer attracting area.
Just wanted to say thanks for all the help / advice.
Steve P.
St. Louis, MO
dbltree
Super Moderator
November 11th, 2013
There are many reasons and advantages to planting multiple crops in each plot, ease of rotation, soil building, reduced fertilizer, herbicide inputs, providing year around food sources to encourage habitual use of plots are all important. Any one/single crop be it beans or brassicas can be easily wiped out, so having different crops growing at different stages/times to avoid deer decimating a single species is very important.
In October and early November whitetails focus on the lush, rye, oats and peas and that insures that the root crops will be available in late December thru mid winter...
When deer are feeding on the brassica portion of the plot...
they are usually focusing on the forage radish tops
The "buffet" of crop species keeps deer moving thru the plot versus focusing on one thing
In most cases deer will eat forage radish foliage first, rape foliage early December and the turnip roots last
Deer don't follow directions very well however and we have seen cases where they decimate brassicas...
Roots and all by late October...
For us, this is where land management comes into play, increasing nutrient levels to increase yields to keep with grazing
Often increasing field/plot size is not an option due to CRP restrictions and a 2 ac plot surrounded by 200 acres of premium cover is going to get hit hard. Each individual may encounter different challenges but as one creates better quality cover thru planting NWSG and Timber Stand Improvement...you will have more deer and more intense use of feeding areas.
Yearly soil testing and soil management will help you feed more deer...on less acres... :way:
There are many reasons and advantages to planting multiple crops in each plot, ease of rotation, soil building, reduced fertilizer, herbicide inputs, providing year around food sources to encourage habitual use of plots are all important. Any one/single crop be it beans or brassicas can be easily wiped out, so having different crops growing at different stages/times to avoid deer decimating a single species is very important.
In October and early November whitetails focus on the lush, rye, oats and peas and that insures that the root crops will be available in late December thru mid winter...
When deer are feeding on the brassica portion of the plot...
they are usually focusing on the forage radish tops
The "buffet" of crop species keeps deer moving thru the plot versus focusing on one thing
In most cases deer will eat forage radish foliage first, rape foliage early December and the turnip roots last
Deer don't follow directions very well however and we have seen cases where they decimate brassicas...
Roots and all by late October...
For us, this is where land management comes into play, increasing nutrient levels to increase yields to keep with grazing
Often increasing field/plot size is not an option due to CRP restrictions and a 2 ac plot surrounded by 200 acres of premium cover is going to get hit hard. Each individual may encounter different challenges but as one creates better quality cover thru planting NWSG and Timber Stand Improvement...you will have more deer and more intense use of feeding areas.
Yearly soil testing and soil management will help you feed more deer...on less acres... :way:
Dbltree,
So I've read this:
Plant ALL in one plot in strips or blocks
Alice, Kopu II, Durana (or comparable) white clover 10% of plot, sow at 6#'s per acre with the rye combination in the fall or in the spring with oats and berseem clover. Correct Ph and P&K with soil tests
Brassicas in 45% of plot
Purple Top Turnips 2.5#
Dwarf Essex Rape 2.5#
GroundHog Forage radish 5#
Plant in mid to late July in most Midwest states, or 60-90 days before your first killing frost, Use 200#'s of 46-0-0 urea and 400#'s of 6-28-28 per acre. Follow the dead brassicas with oats and berseem or crimson clover in mid spring at 50#'s oats and 12-15#'s berseem clover an/or same of crimson clover and/or 50#'s of chickling vetch)
Cereal Grain combo in 45% of plot...I use 50# each rye, oats and peas along with radish and clover seed all plant in half of each feeding area
I use 50#'s each of the following:
Winter rye 50-80#'s per acre (56#'s = a bushel)
Spring oats 50-120#'s per acre (32#'s = a bushel)
Frostmaster Winter Peas or 4010/6040 Forage peas 20-80#'s per acre
Red Clover 8-12#'s per acre or white clover at 6#'s per acre (or 20-40 pounds hairy vetch and 20-30#'s crimson clover on sandy soils)
Groundhog Forage Radish 5#'s per acre
Plant in late August to early September, if following well fertilized brassicas use 100 - 200#'s of urea, if starting a new plot add 400#'s of 6-28-28 but for best results soil test and add only what is necessary.
Rotate the brassicas and rye combo each year
And as I understand it I should follow my brassicas with oats and clover in the spring, which I will then till under when I rotate that area to the rye mix.
What I'm not clear on is what I do with my "Rye side" come spring...? Do I plant it to the same mix of clover and oats (until it's time to plant the brassicas), or does it get something else?
I guess an easier way to ask the same question is... what do I do with the portion of my plot that is planted to winter rye, and when?
Hope that makes sense... sorry if I'm missing the obvious.
Thanks.
Steve
So I've read this:
Plant ALL in one plot in strips or blocks
Alice, Kopu II, Durana (or comparable) white clover 10% of plot, sow at 6#'s per acre with the rye combination in the fall or in the spring with oats and berseem clover. Correct Ph and P&K with soil tests
Brassicas in 45% of plot
Purple Top Turnips 2.5#
Dwarf Essex Rape 2.5#
GroundHog Forage radish 5#
Plant in mid to late July in most Midwest states, or 60-90 days before your first killing frost, Use 200#'s of 46-0-0 urea and 400#'s of 6-28-28 per acre. Follow the dead brassicas with oats and berseem or crimson clover in mid spring at 50#'s oats and 12-15#'s berseem clover an/or same of crimson clover and/or 50#'s of chickling vetch)
Cereal Grain combo in 45% of plot...I use 50# each rye, oats and peas along with radish and clover seed all plant in half of each feeding area
I use 50#'s each of the following:
Winter rye 50-80#'s per acre (56#'s = a bushel)
Spring oats 50-120#'s per acre (32#'s = a bushel)
Frostmaster Winter Peas or 4010/6040 Forage peas 20-80#'s per acre
Red Clover 8-12#'s per acre or white clover at 6#'s per acre (or 20-40 pounds hairy vetch and 20-30#'s crimson clover on sandy soils)
Groundhog Forage Radish 5#'s per acre
Plant in late August to early September, if following well fertilized brassicas use 100 - 200#'s of urea, if starting a new plot add 400#'s of 6-28-28 but for best results soil test and add only what is necessary.
Rotate the brassicas and rye combo each year
And as I understand it I should follow my brassicas with oats and clover in the spring, which I will then till under when I rotate that area to the rye mix.
What I'm not clear on is what I do with my "Rye side" come spring...? Do I plant it to the same mix of clover and oats (until it's time to plant the brassicas), or does it get something else?
I guess an easier way to ask the same question is... what do I do with the portion of my plot that is planted to winter rye, and when?
Hope that makes sense... sorry if I'm missing the obvious.
Thanks.
Steve
dbltree
Super Moderator
Winter rye 50-80#'s per acre (56#'s = a bushel)
Spring oats 50-120#'s per acre (32#'s = a bushel)
Frostmaster Winter Peas or 4010/6040 Forage peas 20-80#'s per acre
Red Clover 8-12#'s per acre or white clover at 6#'s per acre (or 20-40 pounds hairy vetch and 20-30#'s crimson clover on sandy soils)
Groundhog Forage Radish 5#'s per acre
Add red clover with rye/oats/peas, spray or mow the rye in the spring and you are good to go :way:
Spring oats 50-120#'s per acre (32#'s = a bushel)
Frostmaster Winter Peas or 4010/6040 Forage peas 20-80#'s per acre
Red Clover 8-12#'s per acre or white clover at 6#'s per acre (or 20-40 pounds hairy vetch and 20-30#'s crimson clover on sandy soils)
Groundhog Forage Radish 5#'s per acre
Add red clover with rye/oats/peas, spray or mow the rye in the spring and you are good to go :way:
dbltree
Super Moderator
November 22nd, 2013
Dave and his brother planted the brassica mix July 20th...wow, well done fellas!
Jess planted the rye mix in early September and Daves brother killed this buck in early November...gotta love it when a plan comes together!
This is a field/example of a situation where we are hard pressed to grow enough feed, 5 ac of cereal/brassica rotation and 1 ac white clover surrounded by heavily hinged/edge feathered timber. Note cereal mix is not up yet
Here the cereal mix is up and getting attention
They have kept the rye/oats/peas grazed to the dirt
and demolish the brassica roots in October!
There is no more ground to plant so we have to fertilize heavily to achieve high yields that assure the field will be full of deer in late December, early January. Failure is not an option so crops such as beans and corn are out of the question...
Planting multiple crops insures success in small fields with heavy grazing pressure, without the need for fencing etc.
Deer move from one food source to another without being forced to leave the field and thereby become habitual and easy to kill. No one crop can do this, especially in the midwest and northern areas and no combination of crops is better at feeding deer and building soils at the same time...
Dave and his brother planted the brassica mix July 20th...wow, well done fellas!
Jess planted the rye mix in early September and Daves brother killed this buck in early November...gotta love it when a plan comes together!
This is a field/example of a situation where we are hard pressed to grow enough feed, 5 ac of cereal/brassica rotation and 1 ac white clover surrounded by heavily hinged/edge feathered timber. Note cereal mix is not up yet
Here the cereal mix is up and getting attention
They have kept the rye/oats/peas grazed to the dirt
and demolish the brassica roots in October!
There is no more ground to plant so we have to fertilize heavily to achieve high yields that assure the field will be full of deer in late December, early January. Failure is not an option so crops such as beans and corn are out of the question...
Planting multiple crops insures success in small fields with heavy grazing pressure, without the need for fencing etc.
Deer move from one food source to another without being forced to leave the field and thereby become habitual and easy to kill. No one crop can do this, especially in the midwest and northern areas and no combination of crops is better at feeding deer and building soils at the same time...
OHIOshedder
New Member
Paul- I'm looking for a new hand seed spreader for small quantities of small seed like clover and brassica. I saw one you recommended somewhere but can't find the link now....seemed like it was about the size of a gallon jug and white with red lettering. Can you point me to it? Thanks.
dbltree
Super Moderator
Earthway and Solo make good broadcasters but others may share what works for them.
goatman
I hunt days ending in Y
I have both and both work well but my favorite is probably the earthway.
Clover and oats
What is the recomended fertilizer and or nitrogen amount you'd put in the soil following the brassicas in the spring to plant crimson clover and oats? My soil has been amended to make it almost perfect per soil samples before the brassicas were planted. Thank you Paul for everything you have done and shared for the qdma world. Your legacy shall last forever! God bless you and your family.
What is the recomended fertilizer and or nitrogen amount you'd put in the soil following the brassicas in the spring to plant crimson clover and oats? My soil has been amended to make it almost perfect per soil samples before the brassicas were planted. Thank you Paul for everything you have done and shared for the qdma world. Your legacy shall last forever! God bless you and your family.
dbltree
Super Moderator
None should be needed, fertilize the brassicas heavily and that should provide nutrients for oats/crimson and the cereal mix in the fall. If the annual clovers do well then no additional nitrogen is needed for the rye mix, if not then 100# urea might be needed.
Thanks for your kind words
turkeyriver
PMA Member
To anyone contemplating trying "Dbltree's Rotation"(yes, it should be capitalized and a proper noun) just do it! As a farmer and stubborn Norwegian, I stuck to growing corn for plots because I had the means and equipment to do it. This year because of the super wet, late spring I didn't get anything planted till late June, went with beans, and they got wiped out like I figured they would. This gave me the perfect excuse to try the brassicas, rye split. I was amazed at the deer traffic on the rye. And because there was enough rye to satisfy them, they left the brassicas alone till they grew up and made a huge crop, which the deer are now enjoying! I'm not good with posting pics so you'll have to take my word for it. Bonker also hunted over my plots so you could ask him how they worked, of course there is the ? of his credibility. Thanks Paul
Daver
PMA Member
Bonker would never lead anyone astray...
Thanks for stopping by Dave!
You're welcome Paul. It was great to see you. I should mention too that the brassica plot referenced above was planted by Jesse this summer. So it really is a Dbltree plot!
I agree with that! My only problem was the deer were destroying my brassica plot to soon. They ate all the tops off all the brassicas by October. And it was bare dirt by November. The rye side was also kept well groomed. I will say the acorn corn and fruit tree crop was non existent due to a late frost so there wasn't a whole lot of good eating.Hopefully next year they save some for winter.
Bone Slayer
Member
I planted antler king brassicas in late july. They came up great, however the deer have yet to touch them. This has got me confused?
turkeyriver
PMA Member
Three possibilities I can think of. Do deer have a better food source nearby? Standing corn or beans cut high that left a lot of grain out there? Have the deer moved to a winter bedding area a long ways from your plot? Lastly, maybe your deer have never tasted brassicas and don't know what they are. There is a learning curve for deer to eat them. Try mixing some winter rye in with brassicas next year.