bowhuntr311
IowaWhitetail Addict
I had never really thought about this but it make sense. Certainly would be a way to tell when the they start to sweeten up.
Hat Trick
New Member
Yep, but when I put two and two together what turned out to be true was they started to pound them when all the green browse keeled over. They are hammering them right now.
Well I made it back to the plot today. That was after I burried my truck in the snow (had to be pulled out) and a long walk back to the plot. They have started EATING 
It looks like they just started within the last few days. The green tops that are sticking out of the snow have all been nipped off. They haven't started digging down to the other browse that is buried under the 14" of snow we got. Late season is hopefully going to be good. Now I just have to blade me out a trail so I can get back there to hunt it. :drink1:
It looks like they just started within the last few days. The green tops that are sticking out of the snow have all been nipped off. They haven't started digging down to the other browse that is buried under the 14" of snow we got. Late season is hopefully going to be good. Now I just have to blade me out a trail so I can get back there to hunt it. :drink1:
risto2351
Well-Known Member
With all this snow would it be better if the turnips were bladed or snowblowed off or should it just be left and let them fend for themselves ??
They are hitting mine but half is under snow and the other is blown off clean.
They are hitting mine but half is under snow and the other is blown off clean.
Well I made it back to the plot today. That was after I burried my truck in the snow (had to be pulled out) and a long walk back to the plot. They have started EATING
dbltree
Super Moderator
I suppose they would appreciate being able to get to it but clearing that much snow might be a hassle!
I think if I was hunting a plot like that and had the option, I migh blade a swath clear the day before and then "mop up" when they come in to feed!
Deer almost always choose to forage on rape versus turnip tops early in the season, so why bother with adding turnips to a brassica mix?
Once deer adapt to foraging on brassicas they generally will begin to utilize the turnips tops earlier in the fall but it is the roots that are important for a late winter attraction. I had a few days before our late muzzleloader season opens so I decided to go to a friends farm where we had planted the following mix in late July.
We have implemented "strip plotting" on his place so that we had strips of brassicas and strips of winter rye/oats/peas and Groundhog forage radish and red clover. I'll share pictures of the rye in the cereal grain forum but despite being right beside a field of corn that was 1/2 standing 1/2 harvested, they poured into the food plots and fed on both the rye and the turnip roots.
The brassicas at first glance don't look like much this time of year
but closer inspection reveals a bountiful harvest that deer are feeding heavily on
Good quality brassica seeds, regardless of source should run roughly $2-3 a pound and despite claims by those companies who market seed exclusively to hunters my testing has proven absoutely no preference or advantage to any brand or variety over another. Typically however, companies who advertise and market products solely to hunters will charge 2-3 times the real value of the seed.
In 2 1/2 hours I watched upwards of 40 deer enter these plots and feed in some cases for an hour or more on these brassicas, none of which came from "buck on a bag" sources. These deer were certainly not starving with freshly harvested corn only yards away and in fact walking thru the corn to get to the food plot.
Several good bucks that appear to be in the 4 yr old range literally gorged themselves on the turnip roots
This ole boy stayed out there for nearly 2 hours stuffing him self with turnip roots
and stayed until it was too dark to take pictures!
From a little after 3:00
until dark...the brassicas were getting hammered!
These deer had never tasted a brassica in their life before this year and last year this field was weeds 8 feet high so they were not adapted or trained to feed there before this year.
Welters Seed is a great source for brassica seed but there are many sources including nannyslayers co-op, Welters web site is very informative and will give you a fair price comparison to check against your local sources.
Welter Seed & Honey Co.
I urge everyone to avoid planting ALL brassicas but to include seperate plantings of cereal grains and clovers to allow for rotations and to provide a steady year around source of feed for your whitetails......
Nontypcl1
Member
I decided to head out and check some cameras for the first time since we got 16" of snow dumped on us. While I was out I decided to trudge through the snow and check out what kind of activity the plots were seeing.
This is the first year I've planted brassicas, and well, the deer love them. After not touching them until mid september the deer have been hammering them ever since. After the rye and oats really got going the brassicas got a little break. Now that everyting is covered up in a thick layer of snow things have been a little different.
No need for blading the snow off this plot. Looks like something already beat me to it.
Where they have dug through the snow there's nothing left but bare soil. Any trace of foliage or turnip has been devoured.
Looks like I know where I'll be come monday evening.
After only planting a 1/2 acre of brassicas this year I think I better devote another plot to these tasty morsels
This is the first year I've planted brassicas, and well, the deer love them. After not touching them until mid september the deer have been hammering them ever since. After the rye and oats really got going the brassicas got a little break. Now that everyting is covered up in a thick layer of snow things have been a little different.
No need for blading the snow off this plot. Looks like something already beat me to it.
Where they have dug through the snow there's nothing left but bare soil. Any trace of foliage or turnip has been devoured.
Looks like I know where I'll be come monday evening.
After only planting a 1/2 acre of brassicas this year I think I better devote another plot to these tasty morsels
risto2351
Well-Known Member
"I suppose they would appreciate being able to get to it but clearing that much snow might be a hassle!
I think if I was hunting a plot like that and had the option, I migh blade a swath clear the day before and then "mop up" when they come in to feed!"
Paul,
All I was thinking was making it a little easier for them and and keeping them there. With drifts up to 18"-2 foot I see them leaving to hit something else a little easier.
Where it is only an inch or two they are hammering them. The doe I shot the other night was actually in the alfalfa eating right next to the turnips.
I see most of your snow is gone? Ours is not going anywhere soon.
Just trying to get the most bang for my buck (no pun intended). Otherwise the 500 - 600 acre standing cornfield is looking very good to them and my turnips may sit and rot like last year under the ice.
I think if I was hunting a plot like that and had the option, I migh blade a swath clear the day before and then "mop up" when they come in to feed!
"Paul,
All I was thinking was making it a little easier for them and and keeping them there. With drifts up to 18"-2 foot I see them leaving to hit something else a little easier.
Where it is only an inch or two they are hammering them. The doe I shot the other night was actually in the alfalfa eating right next to the turnips.
I see most of your snow is gone? Ours is not going anywhere soon.
Just trying to get the most bang for my buck (no pun intended). Otherwise the 500 - 600 acre standing cornfield is looking very good to them and my turnips may sit and rot like last year under the ice.
whitetail fanatic
Member
Here is a quote, supposedly from Dr. James Kroll. What do you all think of this? Is there anything to worry about here? Seems like it might just be a scare tactic that buck forage oats is using as advertising so they get more people to buy their product instead of brassicas.
"In recent years, brassicas (forage turnips, rape, kale, cabbage and fodder
radishes) have become popular, cheap forage plantings for white-tailed
deer food plots. Although brassicas have been used for grazing, allowing
animals such as white-tailed deer to consume large quantities can be
dangerous. These plants often contain large quantities of the alkaloids,
glucosenolates, thioglucosides and SMCO (S-methylcysteine suphoxide),
which are linked to a host of conditions including: poor performance,
hemolytic anemia, goiter, nitrate/nitrite poisoning, rumen stasis (paralysis),
polioencephalomalacia syndrome, bloat, embryonic death, poor
conception, reduced birth weights, tongue extension, excess salivation,
acute respiratory distress resulting in sudden death, blindness and
diarrhea. Glucosinolate concentrations of as little as 0.4% by dry weight is
considered to be toxic. Studies have reported concentrations in the tops
and leaves of kales to be 1.2 to 6.3 grams per kilogram; and, forage rape or
canola to range 2.9 to 11.9 grams per kilogram). Roots of turnips have
concentrations as high or higher than those found in leaves and stems.
The toxic dose of SMCO is 15 grams per 100 kilograms (fatal anemia) and
10 grams per 100 kilograms (low grade anemia). Concentrations of these
chemicals are reported to increase immediate after a drought and frost
conditions. The potential for poisoning is decreased if animals are
encouraged to eat other forages or by using rotation grazing; both
practices not practical with whitetails, since they tend to graze brassicas
heavily during winter. If you use brassicas in your food plot program, you
should take care to limit acreage and combine with other plants less toxic
to ruminants."
"In recent years, brassicas (forage turnips, rape, kale, cabbage and fodder
radishes) have become popular, cheap forage plantings for white-tailed
deer food plots. Although brassicas have been used for grazing, allowing
animals such as white-tailed deer to consume large quantities can be
dangerous. These plants often contain large quantities of the alkaloids,
glucosenolates, thioglucosides and SMCO (S-methylcysteine suphoxide),
which are linked to a host of conditions including: poor performance,
hemolytic anemia, goiter, nitrate/nitrite poisoning, rumen stasis (paralysis),
polioencephalomalacia syndrome, bloat, embryonic death, poor
conception, reduced birth weights, tongue extension, excess salivation,
acute respiratory distress resulting in sudden death, blindness and
diarrhea. Glucosinolate concentrations of as little as 0.4% by dry weight is
considered to be toxic. Studies have reported concentrations in the tops
and leaves of kales to be 1.2 to 6.3 grams per kilogram; and, forage rape or
canola to range 2.9 to 11.9 grams per kilogram). Roots of turnips have
concentrations as high or higher than those found in leaves and stems.
The toxic dose of SMCO is 15 grams per 100 kilograms (fatal anemia) and
10 grams per 100 kilograms (low grade anemia). Concentrations of these
chemicals are reported to increase immediate after a drought and frost
conditions. The potential for poisoning is decreased if animals are
encouraged to eat other forages or by using rotation grazing; both
practices not practical with whitetails, since they tend to graze brassicas
heavily during winter. If you use brassicas in your food plot program, you
should take care to limit acreage and combine with other plants less toxic
to ruminants."
dbltree
Super Moderator
That's exactly what it is and I have no respect for people who use these types of tactics to sell or promote products.
Deer all ready have access to natural browse, so unlike livestock that are confined and have no choice, any toxicity issues are completely not an issue.
As you can see I do ALWAYS provide other food sources but not for the reasons Dr. Kroll listed...
whitetail fanatic
Member
Thanks dbltre, that's what I was thinking too. No matter how much deer like a certain food plot, they still instinctively eat a large portion of natural food sources in their daily diet. Between all our food plots, at a minimum we always have corn, rape, oats, and alfalfa. Plus we have excellent browse in overgrown CRP areas and selectively cut timber, with a couple areas that are almost clear cuts. Diversity is the key with both food plots and natural food sources such as browse, hard and soft mast.
Momma says, "Marketing is the devil!". :moon:
The theory of ruminant dietary selection and intake is perhaps explained best by Keetlars and Tolcamp in a 1993 article...the gist is that ruminants select certain plants and self regulate intake with the overall goal of longevity....the faster the animal's basal metabolic rate the shorter the longevity. This is a valid explanation for the lack of prevalance of ruminal acidosis in deer with unlimited access to corn in the vast ag fields of the mid-west or in TX where heavy baiting is common. Even with abundant acorns, deer in the crosstimbers will rarely consume more than 35% of intake as acorns. Some biologist need to go back to school! Improve native habitat and plant some plots...your deer will do fine!
Turnip bulbs and clover are popular with our deer right now!
We have blue-collar deer and they don't need white-collar seed! :way:
The theory of ruminant dietary selection and intake is perhaps explained best by Keetlars and Tolcamp in a 1993 article...the gist is that ruminants select certain plants and self regulate intake with the overall goal of longevity....the faster the animal's basal metabolic rate the shorter the longevity. This is a valid explanation for the lack of prevalance of ruminal acidosis in deer with unlimited access to corn in the vast ag fields of the mid-west or in TX where heavy baiting is common. Even with abundant acorns, deer in the crosstimbers will rarely consume more than 35% of intake as acorns. Some biologist need to go back to school! Improve native habitat and plant some plots...your deer will do fine!
Turnip bulbs and clover are popular with our deer right now!
We have blue-collar deer and they don't need white-collar seed! :way:
letemgrow
PMA Member
Deer can regulate themselves, afterall, do you see them founder on a beanfield or cornfield like cows do in the summer time when they get out?? A deer knows when to stop eating and move on and besides, they browse all the way to and from the plots in most cases I have seen on native vegetation so I would not be worried about planting brassicas. If deer are hammering them then I do not see any reason why they are not good for the deer.
HannibalBowhunter
New Member
If I follow a soybean planting with brassicas the following year does it reduce/negate the need for additional fertilizer? What about soybeans that were overseeded with rye?
dbltree
Super Moderator
You gain roughly 30 nitrogen credits per acre, in otherwords you may only need 50#'s of N instead of 80 for your brassicas.
The rye will just recycle any N it's root systems have absorbed as it breaks down as well. You probably would gain the most if you tilled under the rye in late May and planted buckwheat then till that under in July for the brassicas....
dbltree
Super Moderator
12-22-09 update on brassicas that were heavily grazed all summer. They recovered in September when deer focused on clover and rye but they eventually turned on them with a vengence and mowed what was left to the ground.
A close up look reveals that they are knawing off even the tiniest semblence of a root, regardless if it is turnip or radish.
It is difficult to grow roots of any size when they graze the tops so heavily during the summer months and in these cases it is difficult to use too much fertilizer. Forcing growth through optimum nutrient applications is the only answer when fencing and increased acreage is not an option.
In my case strip cropping clover, alfalfa, peas and rye prevented my brassicas from being wiped out entirely and allowed them to at least last until mid December.
When deer adapt to foraging on brassicas, the type or brand will matter not the least to deer and over time one will find it difficult to plant enough to satisfy them....
A close up look reveals that they are knawing off even the tiniest semblence of a root, regardless if it is turnip or radish.
It is difficult to grow roots of any size when they graze the tops so heavily during the summer months and in these cases it is difficult to use too much fertilizer. Forcing growth through optimum nutrient applications is the only answer when fencing and increased acreage is not an option.
In my case strip cropping clover, alfalfa, peas and rye prevented my brassicas from being wiped out entirely and allowed them to at least last until mid December.
When deer adapt to foraging on brassicas, the type or brand will matter not the least to deer and over time one will find it difficult to plant enough to satisfy them....
dbltree
Super Moderator
My friend Andy Yost has some great video of deer pouring into his brassica plot on Midwest Whitetail..I suspect he'll be planting more brassicas next year!
Midwest Whitetail Episode 24
Midwest Whitetail Episode 24
Hat Trick
New Member
You bet I will be Paul! I plan to frost seed clover into them in Feb and then till under half of it to do a yearly rotation to keep them from disease etc. I am also going to try some strip plotting nearby as well.
They ignored them except for the ocassional bite here and there until around Thanksgiving when they started to gradually graze on them. Just after the first snowfall Dec 7th they started hammering them non-stop.
I will tell you I was concerned. My neighbor had planted Brassicas for a couple years with little to no success. I saw one of his plots full of rotted turnips the size of softballs last March. I am not sure if they had plenty to eat or if they just started to get used to them or what, I don't know really. What I do know is they have eaten all 3 of my one acre plots and they are digging all around much like you see in Paul's posts. I have no doubts they will eat them until there is nothing left, what is left
They were staging in them before heading to the standing beans we left.
Thanks again Paul!
Andy
