Brassicas

[dbltree]

I haven't had much success frost seeding clover into dead brassicas so this year I took 4 spent brassica strip plots and decided to conduct a test of sorts. I frost seeded one strip and tilled the other three planting one to berseem, one to crimson and one to chickling vetch...all of which will be used as cover crops and tilled under for a fall winter rye/pea/clover planting.

So far the one I frost seeded and left untilled has turned into somewhat of a mess as surviving brassicas began to re-grow and go to seed this spring.

I can clip the plot to keep the plants from going to seed

but I just don't see a lot of red clover growing, largely I suspect because of the strong allelopathic affects from the remaining brassica plants

In places there are some clover plants but hardly the kind of thick cover crop one would expect.

On the other hand the strips that I plowed under, tilled and planted to annual clovers or vetch are doing fine

Berseem clover

Crimson Clover

and Chickling Vetch

Frost seeding clovers into dead brassica plots that are completely bare may work well but after trying it several times now I'm not real happy with the results versus tilling it under and planting.

I still have time to plant chickling vetch in the frost seeded plot so I'll probably do just that when I have time...

 

[dbltree]

May 30th update on the cover crops that I followed the spent brassicas with...growing like crazy!

Crimson Clover

Berseem Clover

Chickling Vetch

All of those will be tilled under in late August for a winter rye/pea/clover planting and the winter rye/clover from last fall will be tilled under for brassicas in July.

View of the strip plots this time of year...

The lush new annual clovers are getting lot's of attention from both deer and turkeys versus none were the dead brassicas left barren all summer.

and the adjacent winter rye/clover combination is providing great cover and feed at the same time. The rye/clover I have tilled under was full of doe/fawn beds and hen turkeys will soon lead poults on foraging forays in the now blossoming clovers.

One can have a very diversified array of food and cover in even the smallest plots using strip or block plantings and rotating them year to year and doing so will benefit more then just your whitetails...

 

[letemgrow]

Paul,

Whats the best way to plant the groundhog radishes?? Can they just be scatter seeded into a bean plot, or does it need to be worked up to get good seed/soil contact??

 

[dbltree]

Paul,

Whats the best way to plant the groundhog radishes?? Can they just be scatter seeded into a bean plot, or does it need to be worked up to get good seed/soil contact??

Like most seeds germination is better if planted on a tilled surace and cultipacked to cover but GH radishes will germinate on the soil surface in standing soybeans with wnough water. Check Ampacs reference to that listed below....I'll be broadcating some with WR in my beans in late August. :way:

The heavy rains continue in my area of the midwest, averaging 2-5" of rain aweek for going on 6 weeks now! This is our third year in a row now of this kind of weather pattern and a reminder of why summer and fall plantings should be a major part of every landowners management plan.

July planted brassicas certainly fit well into that plan but I had hoped to do some spring planting of tillage radishes because they have a better chance of not being severely grazed this time of year and root development more pronounced.

The best I have done so far is get some Groundhog tillage radish seed planted in the garden Sunday afternoon.

There are several tillage/forage radishes on the market but Groundhog is one of the few that has been developed as an improved tillage radish and is being used by farming operations on such a large scale that seed has been in high demand.

Farmers don't use inferior seed nor pay a premium for something that will not do "premium" work.

Hunter landowners could do well to take a lesson from todays modern farmer and and search put the best improved seed at fair prices. Currently GH radish seed is being sold for prices in the $2.50-2.65 a pound range but of course there are those who put a "buck on the bag" or some reference to "deer" and charge 2-3 times as much so decide for yourself what seed will serve your purpose within your budget.

The only problem I have with GH radish is keeping deer from wiping them out before hunting season even on farms where they will not eat the usual brassicas(rape, turnips, kale and swedes). Root development wil vary widely depending on soil fertility and fertilizer inputs so like any crop it is not magic and will not put down 3 ft roots in poor soils with no nitrogen added.

The more N added the harder the radish will work and the more forage and root it will grow. I would also add that the "tillage" part actually comes after the fact, when the plant dies and decomposes leaving channels deep into the soil. Water flows in those channels and the freezing/thawing actions pulverize the packed soil so summer/fall plantings work better in that regard.

In time I expect other companies will bring other improved varieties on the market and make prices even more competitive but for now, if seed is priced over $3 a pound...I would consider a different source because you are being taken advantage of.

Ampac is the developer of GH radish:

GroundHog Tillage radish

Search the Ampac dealer site for a dealer near you or Welter Seed will sell you GH seed by the pound which allows you to give it a try and see for yourself.

Welter Seed - GH tillage radish seed

Try some with your brassicas or in a side by side strip and see what you think for yourself 5#'s will sow a 1/2 acre and even with a 3 dollar handling fee that is slightly over 16 bucks.

Someone is bound to try these radishes and find their deer won't eat them but I think across the country that will be the rare exception so if you try some please come back and let us know how you liked them...

 

[letemgrow]

If the rain keeps up at this rate, I will not have a choice but to spread the seeds and hope for more rain!!!

 

[dbltree]

If the rain keeps up at this rate, I will not have a choice but to spread the seeds and hope for more rain!!!

2-3" more expected today here in SE IA and the fields are already saturated and then some, crops are drowning in the fields...not good!

 

[dbltree]

2nd year in a row I have tried frost seeding red clover into a spent brassica plot to no avail, some folks have success doing this but the allelopathic chemicals seem to be to strong for it to work well.
Some of the brassicas re-grew

and were going to seed, so I mowed the whole mess down!

Instead of that mess it could have looked like the plots I tilled and planted to annual clovers, clean and lush like this crimson clover!

If the rain would ever stop I would till it up and plant and annual clover or chickling vetch but sunshine is a scarce commodity in my neck of the woods..

 

[waylonb19]

Whats a planting date on the GH radish? Is is about the same as brassicas? July/August? I might have to give some a test run.

 

[dbltree]

Whats a planting date on the GH radish? Is is about the same as brassicas? July/August? I might have to give some a test run.

You can mix it with other brassicas in mid summer or add it to a winter rye planting in late Aug/early September...:way:

 

[dbltree]

5 days after planting the little "Groundhogs" are popping up!

If I can keep the deer away from them perhaps we'll get to see what these babies can do...

GroundHog Radish

 

[dbltree]

I plant this mix simply because I can pickup this seed from Welters in large enough quanities to avoid handling charges and they all have great attributes!

Dwarf Essex Rape Seed 1#
Purple Top Turnips 1#
Appin forage turnip 1#
Barkant Forage Turnip 1#
Barnapoli Rape Seed 1/2#
Pasja Hybrid Brassica 1/2#
GroundHog Forage Radish 5#

That being said however, certainly ALL of those are not required to plant a successful brassica plot that will be attractive to deer.

Everyone should plant a mix that includes both a rapeseed (canola) and a turnip although kale and kale hybrids can cetainly replace the rapeseed plants.

Dwarf Essex Rape has proven to be the very first brassica to be grazed in my side by side tests and it also happens to be the most economical brassica seed available. Deer will forage this brassica long before most turnip tops but the downside is that it has no late season attraction.

Turnips on the other hand provide both forage and roots with the latter being attractive well into late January.

DER and Purple Top turnips then become to old standbys that are readily available and very economical to plant. Brassicas are generally planted at roughly 5#'s per acre so I try to mix 1/2 and 1/2 in my overall mix.

If the improved forage brassicas are available they have do have some attributes that make them worth the slightly higher cost per pound and usually the forage turnips have leaves that are both more productive and palatable. It's important then to look at all aspects and what your goals and needs are when deciding what to plant.

There are many brassica mixes out there but I would be hesitant if the cost more then $5 a pound or $25 an acre for seed. Check also that a brassica mix does not contain clovers or cereal grains because they just don't grow well together and one will severely hinder the other.

Deer Creek Seed has a great mix for those folks up north and I have planted all of those on an individual basis.

DCS Wildlife Rape
Hunter Forage Brassica
Winfred Forage Brassica
Rangi Forage Brassica
Purple Top Turnip

If you have struggled to get deer to eat brassicas on your property consider planting a mix heavy in Groundhog Forage Radish and Dwarf Essex Rape and very lite on turnips and you may find you'll have better results.

When looking at commerical mixes at outdoor outlet stores, turn the bag over and look at the seed label on the back and see what your getting for the price. Sometimes it's a deal but often it's highway robbery.

If you are part of a QDM Co-op consider buying your brassica seed in bulk and then dividing it up at a given date when members can meet and pickup seed.

Brassicas can provide awesome forage but learn more about them and the various varieties and species before you deicide what might work best for you and your budget....

 

[waylonb19]

I read someone say that Clopyralid is save to spray on brassicas to control broadleaf. I didn't think there was anything save to sray on them for broadleaf. I tried looking it up and only thing I came up with is its safe to spray on sugarbeets. Anyone know?

 

[dbltree]

I read someone say that Clopyralid is save to spray on brassicas to control broadleaf. I didn't think there was anything save to sray on them for broadleaf. I tried looking it up and only thing I came up with is its safe to spray on sugarbeets. Anyone know?

Clopyralid is commonly sold under the brand name "Stinger" and it will control some broadleaves in brassicas.

Here's the label: Stinger herbicide label

It's a little bit pricey but it might do the trick if you need it....

 

[dbltree]

Ok...so what is the difference between "tillage" radish, "forage" radish and "oil seed" radish anyway????

Like silage corn and ear corn or alfalfa and grazing alfalfa....they are "the same only different!"

From this link: Radish names defined

Radish names defined

What’s in a name?

Radishes have become quite popular the past few years primarily because of consistent yield increases on crops that are planted the following year.

However there is confusion in the some farming circles- particularly in the Midwest about what kind of radish we are talking about. Tillage Radish, oilseed radish, and daikon radish are the most frequent names associated with Raphanus sativus, the scientific name for this species.

All these listed below are Raphanus sativus radishes with many different names associated with different uses. They are different when compared one with another. It’d be like using the generic term, “corn” to describe the many varieties of corn -sweet corn included.

Names for Raphanus sativus:

Forage radish- the name Dr. Ray Weil, University of Maryland, assigned to the Raphanus sativus selection he used in his research relating to cover crops.

Forage Radish is also used by those who use it for grazing. Dr, Weil will continue to use this term in order to be consistent with his research the past 8 years. But he is indeed using “tillage radish” seeds in current studies.

Tillage radishes are mentioned on an upcoming fact sheet from the University of Maryland.

Oilseed radish –As the name indicates these are Raphanus sativus selected for oilseed production, not root production. Seeding rate is sometimes double because of increased seed size.

Roots are less aggressive and the plants are generally harder to winterkill. There are namedvarieties of oilseed radish.

Daikon radish- a selection of Raphanus sativus used for human consumption.

Oilseed/daikon radish- confusing if this is really for oil seed or human consumption or something else.

Dichon/dicon radish- another name for daikon radish

Fodder radish-unspecified selection used as a cover crop

Field radish- unspecified selection used as a cover crop

Sprouting radish-Japanese use as sprouts in salads

Japanese radish-used for human consumption

Asian radish- used for human consumption

Chinese radish- used for human consumption

Tillage Radish- A trademarked name that describes the best selection of Raphanus sativus currently available for use as a soil conditioner and cover crop. Tillage Radishes are backed with 8 years of research at Cedar Meadow Farm in conjunction with the University of Maryland.

As you can see the terms "tillage" and "forage" are names coined during early research and they are essentially one in the same. Groundhog is just an improved variety no doubt from early progress made by Steve Groff of Cedar Meadows Farms and Dr. Ray Weil.

Cedar Medows Tillage Radish

Cedar Meadows Farm Field Day

Forage Radish Fact Sheet

The key difference then between "oilseed" and the "forage/tillage" radish is of course the root because the oilseed version has been developed for "oilseed" production.

The "forage/tillage" versions were selected from the deep tap rooted varieties and improved varieties spawned from those. Since they were originally being used for grazing they were called "forage" radishes and then research on their usefulness as cover crops and then for breaking up soil compaction brought on the term "tillage".

Even though one may desire only grazing or only soil tillage the Groundhog version fulfills both needs equally well and no doubt other improved varieties will follow....

 

[dbltree]

There is I think, no bigger culprit in the hunting/land management world then seed companies when it comes to spreading lies thru deceitful and often completely false information.

Buck Forage Oats is at the top of the list and for several years now they have been paying Dr. Kroll to literally lie to unsuspecting landowners to get people to buy their very over priced and unproductive product.
In regards to brassicas Dr. Kroll quotes 30 year old toxicity information that is not only rare but also ONLY a problem where livestock are fenced in and forced to eat ONLY brassicas.

Deer of course are free roaming and eat all other types of browse so there has NEVER been a known case of a single deer EVER becoming ill from eating brassicas.

Dr. Kroll is in effect lieing to each and every one of you and using his status to do so for no other reason then greed...something that seems to be rampant these days.

Ampac Seed has recently issued an article that includes comments on this subject from Ed Spin, someone who most of you know and respect. I urge you to read the article (page down...it's a newsletter) and understand the truth.

Article on brassica toxicity - the truth

I don't sell seed and I is not important to me that you plant brassicas or not, what is important is that each of you are aware of the truth and make managment decisions based on facts rather then lies....

 

[HannibalBowhunter]

Paul,

I had a couple of questions for you. You responded to my post on QDMA about getting rid of my rye. Well, I just got done cultipacking the rye. It worked great - now I have a a big field that looks like it needs to be baled. It is pretty thick in some places. You were saying that I could just overseed my brassicas into this "mulch" next month. Is that right? What about my cereal grain mix? I tried to use my disk on the rye and all it did was make a big haybale out of my disk. What should I do? Also, the portion of the field that I frostseeded with clover is still standing tall (just starting to bend over). I am concerned that as the rye falls over it will shade out/smother my clover. Help! I am going to make sure I clip off my rye next year!

 

[dbltree]

Paul,

I had a couple of questions for you. You responded to my post on QDMA about getting rid of my rye. Well, I just got done cultipacking the rye. It worked great - now I have a a big field that looks like it needs to be baled. It is pretty thick in some places. You were saying that I could just overseed my brassicas into this "mulch" next month. Is that right? What about my cereal grain mix? I tried to use my disk on the rye and all it did was make a big haybale out of my disk. What should I do? Also, the portion of the field that I frostseeded with clover is still standing tall (just starting to bend over). I am concerned that as the rye falls over it will shade out/smother my clover. Help! I am going to make sure I clip off my rye next year!

The problem is that your tyring to work with it at the most difficult stage, been there done that too!

With small equipment we want to deal with rye very early by either spraying, mowing or tilling....or....waiting until it's mature and dry.

It won't smother the clover...it will just "fade" away like this:

You'll see how much easier it is to deal with rye when it drys down and turns to straw, it's entirely different then when it's green and "wirey"

Now that you have knocked the rye down it should be easy to disc it a little in a few weeks to plant brassicas. No need to do much more then scatch it up a bit, broadcast the brassica seed and cultipack it.

When you do the cereals later on, it should be even easier cause the rye started to decompose somewhat.

For now...just leave it lay and the stuff with clover, just leave it and don't worry about it for now...it's not as bad as it looks....

 

[HannibalBowhunter]

Thanks. You make it all sound so easy

 

[HannibalBowhunter]

Because I know you like pictures: Here is my rye after today.

 

[dbltree]

Holy Cats! You were not kiddin' when you said it was thick! Gieesh!

I bet you could almost broadcast brassica seed right into that straw and never even disc it! I'm going to post more on this in the cereal grain thread but farmers are "Rolling Rye" more and more these days!

Here's a link to an article on the subject:

Rolling Rye