Cereal Grains and cover crops

[dbltree]

An 1 1/2" of rain only days after planting the cereals had them germinating at 5 days after planting.

Winter rye and oats...the rye usually starts out witha reddish coloring while the oats tend to be a little more green in color.

I till the seeds in and pull a cultipacker behind the tiller but a certain percentage of seeds are bound to be pulled up to the surface....note here that the oat seeds on the surface have not germinated as readily as did the rye.

GroundHog Forage Radish seeds also germinate quickly and will do so on the soil surface with plenty of moisture.

4010 Forage Peas...the peas will also germinate on top of the soil but they need continued rainfall to survive until roots reach the moisture zone.

If rain causes the seed to germinate and the the sun comes out for a week the seeds my dry out before reaching moistre below the surface.

Shooting for a 1-2" planting depth on peas usually insures a successful planting should one hit a dry spell after planting.

Rye and radish seeds work very well to overseed into standing crops like soybeans at leaf turn, thin brassicas, killed sod or cover crops....all they need is a little rain...

 

[dbltree]

September 9th 2010

Cereal grain planting at 14 days....

The combination of winter rye, oats, forage peas and forage radish is well on it's way!

Still not quite tall enough to encourage grazing but it's not far off

Now that plants have established root systems that can reach water and nutrients they'll begin to grow rapidly

The GroundHog forage radish and forage peas cover the ground now

The peas will be a major attraction in the coming weeks and is one crop that I have yet to see deer turn down!

The baby peas are tender and succulant and the one element no one should leave out of a cereal grain planting

It is interesting to watch them erupt from a seed laying right on the surface!

If roots don't reach water however they will germinate and then die on the surface so survival rates are higher when pea seeds are planted an inch deep or so.

The plots shown had 200#'s of urea tilled in at planting and then just shy of 2" of rain about 4 days later and are shown at 2 weeks in the ground. It's September 10th, season opens October 1st here in Iowa by which time this plot will be lush and roughly 6" tall so it gives landowners and idea when to plant in relation to your season opener.... :way:

 

[KSHUNTER]

I spread 300 lbs to the acre of 100# of Urea, 100# Dap, and 100# of Potash and worked it in on Wed. evening. We then got 1.5 inches of rain Thurs., so Im planning on planting the 5 acres as soon as it dries out. My plan is to drill rye, my question is it to late to plant peas also?

I live in SE Kansas, so from my planting date we will be 30 to 45 days out from a hard frost. Will that give the peas time to put on some growth, or would I just be wasing my money?

This is a new farm I just closed on July 1st, and there is no food, and Im just trying to provide a source for this fall and winter. In the spring the rye will be plowed under as green manure.

Thanks for any input.

 

[dbltree]

is it to late to plant peas also?

I think you still have time to get some growth, especially in your area...:way:

 

[dbltree]

Winter rye seed is number one of the list of cereal grains to overseed via broadcasting into standing crops or bare soils because of the ease in which it germinates. It just requires some moisture in the form of rainfall and the seeds will germinate right on top of the soil.

I broadcasted winter rye seed into standing milo, soybeans, brassicas and even killed sod roughly 10 days ago but it wasn't until we received rain several days ago that the seeds began to germinate.

Rainfall followed by warm sunshine has the seeds sprouting left and right now!

I added GroundHog forage radish seed to the winter rye and it to is germinating easily on the soil surface.

Overseeding rye and radish seed is a great way to add more forage to your plots, especially standing soybeans if they have dried down by late August or early September. Fill in thin areas in your brassica plots, green up your standing corn or just spray some sod with glyphosate and and overseed rye and radish seed immediately after spraying.

Crops like clover or alfalfa are generally to competitive to overseed rye into but any crops that allow some sunlight in are usually compatible. Rye can be overseeded even into an established stand of rye to insure new growth as we get farther into hunting season.

Rye and radishes go together like a hand in glove and not only provide high quality forage but both go to work scavenging nitrogen, pulling up subsoil nutrients, improving soil tilth, adding organic matter and eventually limiting the germination of weed seeds.

Plenty of time to pick up some seed and get some on your existing plots today... :way:

 

[Daver]

I planted 11 bushels of rye yesterday, by hand! Most was broadcast into disked and then dragged soil, some was into killed sod and some into standing beans.

Since my beans finally got planted on July 13th, they are still green and growing and are drawing deer now, when normal bean fields are yellowing. I have calf high growth on the beans and a good number of pods showing. The key is if I can keep them from getting mowed off in the next 1-2 weeks as I suddenly have the only green bean field around the neighborhood.

I am seeing rain in the forecast for tomorrow which should hit me about right.

 

[dbltree]

September 15th

Going on 3 weeks in the ground the winter rye, oat, forage pea, forage radish and clover combo is now lush and growing well!

Heavily fertilized to force growth and keep up with expected heavy grazing, the combination is now a salad buffet for deer!

Pretty active spot to have a trail cam

and despite alfalfa, soybeans, corn and clover all around...deer are starting to forage heavily on the winter rye combo

Last year in this same spot I had only rye and clover and tested the theory that adding nitrogen would sweeten the forage and increase usage of the fertilized side...but such was not the case and pictures are posted previously in this thread to verify that.

I chose to divide these test strips into thirds to show how easily crops can be planted and rotated in even very small areas, so 1/3 is lush white clovers planted with the rye last fall. 1/3 is very late planted brassicas (strip appears bare in the center) and the far side is the cereal grain combo.

This seemed like a perfect place to re-test the idea of adding additional nitrogen in an effort to make plants more attractive to whitetails even though in multiple tests I have found no evidence that this actually occurs.

I marked strips with flags

and sprayed one with Coron 28 Foliar fertilizer

and broadcasted 46-0-0 urea on one and AMS on the other and repeated this a second time moving up the test plot

Once again I expect to see no discernible difference between the strips with and without added nitrogen simply because healthy well fertilized crops are unlikely to taste much different when fertilizer is added later. Deer are already adapted to feeding in safe secure areas so adding additional N is unlikely to draw deer from other areas.

The TC is keeping a watchful eye 24-7 and it doesn't lie, so if deer do indeed show some preference it will be easy to see...

 

[DH1]

I wrapped up my seeding about 2 weeks ago, lessons learned for smaller plots:

- invest in an Earthway Seeder - I picked one up for about $40, I was planning to use one of my smaller seeders (lawn type hand held), but it couldn't be found. So I tried: 1) using a lawn push type, got the job done but not very evenly dispersed and was very difficult pushing around on the uneven terrain 2) using the ol' toss with the hand method, again didn't disperse the seed evenly, so some areas are thinner and some areas to heavy.

The Earthway handled multiple smaller areas (1/8-1/2) acre with ease, including mutiple passes with various seed types and fertilizer types . Nice even ditribution and easy walk over much of the uneven terrain.

- have a good rough estimate on all the areas planted (was my first time), I had most of the areas nailed down but was off on one area, which threw off the seed mix early on, so while I would of had plenty of quality seed to use I thought I come up short and threw in some old seed as well. When I finished I still had plenty of seed left which meant I would have been better off putting more quality seed on the ground.

 

[roadking]

I planted rye about 2-3 wks. ago and it's about 6" tall and looks pretty good.
My Shot Plot on the other hand is sporadic. It was planted 30 days ago. The plots with direct sun, which are very few, look great and growing well. The plots with minimal or less sun are struggling. Some are just coming out of the groud an others a few inches tall. Moisture has been good. Is there enough growing time left to get a decent stand???

 

[dbltree]

Is there enough growing time left to get a decent stand???

Your unlikely to have softball size turnips or anything but they do have time to grow some yet.

The problem is if they are in semi-shaded areas they probably won't amount to much...keep us posted though...:way:

 

[dbltree]

The peas are growing like crazy right now but I'm not sure how much longer they'll last.

Right at the moment they are focusing on the rye and oats...

Which is perfect because it's allowing the peas and radish plants to get some size on them before cold weather sets in.

So far it appears that they like the forage radish when it gets a little larger and we still have 2-3 weeks of good growing time left in SE Iowa....

 

[roadking]

Can I still plant rye, oats or wheat? Would just like to broadcast on some bare areas.

 

[dbltree]

Can I still plant rye, oats or wheat? Would just like to broadcast on some bare areas.

Yep...probably plant rye well into October because it germinates and grows at colder temps then the other cereals...:way:

 

[dbltree]

September 24th 2010

Couple pics from the trail cam that show us several things...on is growth progression in 7 days of the winter rye/oat/pea/radish/clover combination. The other shows the center brassica strip that I have planted twice this summer and both times heavy heavy rains followed by hot baking sunshine have crusted soils and prevented emergence. The center of this strip is nothing but clay subsoil's so again, we learn something more...the clovers are thriving on the right, the cereal grain mixture is thriving on the left...while the center is still largely devoid of brassicas.

September 15 2010

All of these things are extremely important to be aware of because different crops thrive in different soils and weather conditions but rye can not only survive but thrive in the poorest soil from clay to sand, wet or dry, low or high PH and that cannot be said of other crops or even other cereals such as wheat.

Note the difference in growth in 7 days...

September 15 2010

I hope all of you can see the folly in planting one field or plot to only one crop...that crop can fail completely! Planting multiple crop types within any size plot prevents that from happening and it also insures that the field will at no time during the year be bare and not attracting and holding whitetails.

Clover lasts from early spring til late fall, brassicas early fall to mid winter, winter rye carries them through til spring. This is not the only combination of course, corn, beans and alfalfa can do the same thing but the point is to have diverse crops not on just your farm but in each field or plot...including small plots such as this.

The winter rye, oats, forage peas, forage radish and clover is now very very lush and attractive!

The ground is a dense blanket of lush protein rich feed that deer find irresistible! On top of that, every plant growing in this combination is also going to improve these poor clay subsoil's by spring.

I have heavy grazing so I fertilize to encourage maximum growth but if you have only light grazing, add little if any nitrogen. To much urea can cause growth to outpace grazing and you end up with forage that is to mature and unpalatable. Those new to this or planting new plots may have to learn by experience and see what they need. Winter rye needs no fertilizer at all for those on a budget and if you are smart enough to add clovers (white or red) to till under next year....the rye will have more then enough N available from the decomposing clover and meanwhile the clover will have fed your deer all summer long.... :way:

 

[dbltree]

With over 30" of rain above normal for the year here in SE Iowa it's no surprise that some areas and even entire fields drowned it out this year. We replanted some areas that had been planted to alfalfa this spring, this fall and with 8" additional rain this past week we still have concerns of losing the seeding.

The field had already been adequately fertilized and limed for legumes but no nitrogen of course when I sowed 75#'s of winter rye and 75#'s of oats, 5 #'s Groundhog Radish and 10#'s each of Alfalfa and Red Clover.

About 8 days ago we broadcast urea and also foliar applied some Coron 28 (liquid urea) and if you look close you can see a "yellow" streak in the plot where we missed when applying nitrogen.

All cereal grains can be planted heavy enough to suffocate a legume seeding, either spring or fall and many landowners don't take that possibility into account when planting forage legumes with cereals. It is for that reason that I add oats to my fall seeding and cut the planting rate for rye (or wheat) in half to insure that the winter cereals will not be to heavy and thick the following spring.

If this field does not drown yet again it will be a great field to follow next spring with updates on how the alfalfa and red clover co-exist with the winter rye.

Some people have concerns that they have already planted theirs too heavily but any cereal is easily controlled the following spring by spraying clethodim or by clipping the cereals once or twice. It only costs about 5 bucks an acre to spray clethodim and the cereals will melt away leaving behind a nice killed mulch or gly can be used in clover only seedings for $2-3 an acre.

I always clip my legumes so I choose to just clip the winter cereals off even if it requires a second clipping but for those that find time a precious commodity...sow your winter cereals at lower rates and use oats to provide more fall into early winter feed.

The oats of course will freeze off by mid December in most northern areas leaving only the winter cereal behind...just some things to keep in mind when establishing legumes with fall cereal plantings.

While a couple low areas have already killed out from the saturated soils most of the alfalfa/red clover seeding is thriving!

Fall legume seedings also insure that weeds will rarely be a problem which is a huge plus compared to spring seeding and dealing with hordes of annual weeds and grasses that explode to life. Any weeds that germinate this fall will freeze off leaving only the cereals and legumes behind.

Winter rye does not have allelopathic effects until the root systems develop the following spring so when legume or brassica seeds are sown together with rye...there is no effects at all. They all germinate and grow together and the following spring when the legumes are well established and growing the rye roots then begin to have an affect on tiny weed seeds (as does the forage radish as the roots decompose). The combination of fall planting and using winter rye, oats and forage radish to establish forage legumes if a near perfect scenario for plotters...attracting whitetails all winter into spring, avoiding wet spring weather and weed problems and if the right amounts were planted...avoiding the need for any herbicides.

The GroundHog forage radish is also responding to the nitrogen and provides many of the same benefits of the winter rye by helping to inhibit weeds the following spring along with reducing soil compaction and pulling up subsoil nutrients.

One thing I have noticed is that deer seem to not feed on the forage radish when it is small but rather turn on it with a vengeance when it gets more mature usually at 35-50 days.

The cereals grow rapidly at first and deer quickly begin feeding on them which allows the forage radish to grow and be utilized later...perfect for late October into December hunting.... :way:

 

[dbltree]

I have been asked by several people "when can I expect deer to hit my forage radish??"...everyone's situation is different of course making it impossible for me to predict what each landowner across the country will experience, I can only share what I have seen in 3 counties and multiple farms here in SE Iowa.

Deer seem to prefer the radish plants as they get older so the ones planted in July or early August in a typical brassica mix have been grazed heavily for weeks now and most look like this one a few days ago.

The root has reach a significant size but the tops have been heavily grazed (planted early July in a brassica mix)

This GHFR was planted Aug 28th with winter rye/oats/peas and clover and they have not been touched, partially because deer are foraging heavily on the lush rye and oats.

Again I want to emphasis the importance of NOT planting the whole field to one plant or even a combination of plants that all mature or become available at the same time. Because we plant strips of white clover and strips of brassicas along side the strips of rye/oat/pea/radish/clover combination....there is ALWAYS something to eat, always something newly attractive that keeps deer interested and focused on our plots.

Deer focused on white clover at first then on the GHFR in the brassica mix and were almost to the point of decimating them when suddenly...lush succulent rye and oats lure them away from the brassica strips!

This allows the brassicas to recover and root growth to continue that deer can focus on much later and because the rye combination is heavily fertilized the radish plants will put on significant growth into mid October and at that point these later planted plants will be extremely attractive just as the summer planted GHFR were in September.

You can see there is a tremendous amount of very high quality forage in this plot, no yellow or stunted plants but instead very sweet and attractive forage that is irresistible to deer.

There is you see...always a "method to my madness" and every plant and planting fit's together perfectly to consistently and constantly hold deer yet make crop rotations incredibly easy and effective. Every plant helps to build up and improve our soils in a variety of ways and when the rotations have been in play for awhile only minimal fertilizer applications will be required to maintain required soil nutrients.

Healthy soils full of organic matter retain moisture during summer droughts and when soil compaction is reduced thanks to the radish roots, water logged soils are less likely during periods of excess rainfall. Because a number of crops are present at any given time the risks of a disappointing crop failure is reduced significantly.

Many of you have tried my suggested seed mixes...now split your plots and fields and try them all in the same field ...then you'll have deer happily munching on GHFR in September AND November.... :way:

 

[DH1]

...someone said a picture was worth a thousand words (picture below, from today but pretty much the same the last 2 weeks): The last 2-3 weeks the sourthern tip of the UP Michigan has been stuck in the low 60s. Might be in the 70s up in parts of Canada, but I'm thinking, I'm going to be in trouble on my plots. I put in alfalfa with rye and GH radishes and clover with rye and GH radishes. Last week-end the rye was about 4 inches, the GH radish about 2-3 inches, while the alfalfa and clover you could barely tell it germinated (under half an inch). I'm thinking I'm going to get some winter kill on the legumes, I used about 65lbs of rye and about 2 lbs of GH radishes per acre, so not sure if that's enough to keep small seeds from germinating in spring. Would I still be able to frost seed (alfalfa and clover) in the spring or I'm I going to have to till-up what left of the rye?

 

[dbltree]

You can frost seed clover into rye with no problems at all the clover will germinate and grow very early and will be unaffected by the rye...:way:

 

[Boz]

If you could only plant one cereal grain, winter rye or oats and everything else was equal (ground,fertilizer,grazing, etc..) what do you think would be the best attractant for deer?

 

[Daver]

If you could only plant one cereal grain, winter rye or oats and everything else was equal (ground,fertilizer,grazing, etc..) what do you think would be the best attractant for deer?

Not trying to be a smart aleck here, but you should read through the classic threads in DBLTREE's CORNER. This thread is about cereal grains and somewhere in the 45 pages of info will be the answer to all of your questions.

Nevertheless, the 60 second answer is...Rye > Oats, if you are only going to do ONE. Oats, no matter the source, are great until the first frost and they are then toast. Rye will grow longer in the fall and sooner in the spring. Both have their place though.