dbltree
Super Moderator
Mid September is usually safe but you can frost seed into the rye in late March if necessary
Mid September is usually safe but you can frost seed into the rye in late March if necessary
dbltree
Super Moderator
August 25th, 2013
The cereal grain half of the rotation, if following last years (well fertilized) brassicas can scavenge left over and subsoil P&K but nitrogen is not storable and it's what makes crops lush, dark green and extremely palatable. If you have a great crop of berseem and/or crimson clover (planted with oats in spring following brassicas) there is the potential for enough N from the decomposing legumes one they are killed via tillage or chemically. Legumes are an awesome, natural source of N but wet spring weather prevented us from planting much of ours and some that was planted drowned from excessive rainfall.
Urea is an economical form of nitrogen when legumes are not present or sufficient to provide enough N, ammonium sulfate and ammonium nitrate are also options but not always readily available and often more expensive.
For those not familiar with urea, the following is a great link to help you understand more along with the limitations of urea:
Fertilizer Urea
Urea can quickly be lost to the air if broadcast on the soil surface in weather above 60 degrees, so it needs to be tilled in or have a minimum 1/4-1/2" rainfall to incorporate it. We used bulk urea treated with a urease inhibitor this year...
That allowed us to spread the urea and go back and till it in over a period of days
The average landowner will be best off to purchase urea in 50# bags, spread and till in before planting...currently $20 a bag in our area but you might also buy bulk and shovel into bags or containers. Urea is very corrosive so wash it off from any metal area when finished
Once all plots are fertilized and tilled Jess will start drilling the cereal mix and hoping it...rains...
The cereal grain half of the rotation, if following last years (well fertilized) brassicas can scavenge left over and subsoil P&K but nitrogen is not storable and it's what makes crops lush, dark green and extremely palatable. If you have a great crop of berseem and/or crimson clover (planted with oats in spring following brassicas) there is the potential for enough N from the decomposing legumes one they are killed via tillage or chemically. Legumes are an awesome, natural source of N but wet spring weather prevented us from planting much of ours and some that was planted drowned from excessive rainfall.
Urea is an economical form of nitrogen when legumes are not present or sufficient to provide enough N, ammonium sulfate and ammonium nitrate are also options but not always readily available and often more expensive.
For those not familiar with urea, the following is a great link to help you understand more along with the limitations of urea:
Fertilizer Urea
Urea can quickly be lost to the air if broadcast on the soil surface in weather above 60 degrees, so it needs to be tilled in or have a minimum 1/4-1/2" rainfall to incorporate it. We used bulk urea treated with a urease inhibitor this year...
That allowed us to spread the urea and go back and till it in over a period of days
The average landowner will be best off to purchase urea in 50# bags, spread and till in before planting...currently $20 a bag in our area but you might also buy bulk and shovel into bags or containers. Urea is very corrosive so wash it off from any metal area when finished
Once all plots are fertilized and tilled Jess will start drilling the cereal mix and hoping it...rains...
northcedar
Well-Known Member
I was able to clear a lane into an old section of pasture and got it batwinged a few days ago. The lane will not be wide enough (this year) to get any tillage machinery into the spot. In another week or so I'll spray it with roundup. So by mid September I'll be looking at an acre of dead sod and the leftover straw from mowing. I'm wondering what my best route is to establish a green plot for November hunting. I'm thinking about broadcasting 1.5-2 bushel of rye and a bushel of oats. Again, I have no means to till and this will not be drilled, so should I skip the peas and red clover for this year? I would be able to drag a section of harrow around if that would help any, or would I just be dragging around piles of straw? Thanks in advance for any tips.
dbltree
Super Moderator
Don't try to drag or harrow, you'll have a mess...a disc would work fine but not a drag. Rye germinates easily on the surface (with rain) but oats, not so much so broadcast rye and the frost seed red clover late next March.
dbltree
Super Moderator
2013 Drought
Not as extensive or long as 2012 but still the 3rd year in a row we have experienced drought conditions here in the midwest
Heavy rainfall has kept the east dealing with mud and flooding but here in the heartland, record breaking scorching hot weather prevails.
80% of Iowa is dealing with extremely dry conditions where most have not seen rain since July
Fortunately winter rye will grow on a brick so with any rainfall at all this fall, it will grow! John shared a rocky spot where tilling is out of the question yet he grew rye there last fall, he rolled it, sprayed gly and will repeat the process this fall...great way to attract whitetails and build organic matter at the same time!
Scott has his seed mixes ready to go...large seeds
Small seeds
Remember to till in fertilizer, broadcast large seeds, cultipack, broadcast small seeds and re-cultipack
Jess has been busy tilling in urea in our area but where we have a great crop of red clover, less is needed. The rye was mowed off back in July leaving the red clover free to grow, fixing nitrogen and several ton of organic matter per acre.
In dry soils the seeds will generally lay there until sufficient rainfall is received to germinate them, but larger seeds can be planted -1" to 1 1/2" deep to get seeds closer to moisture. Easier with a drill but a light harrow could be beneficial in getting large seeds a little deeper, small seeds however are best off 1//8" to 1/4" deep.
Hopefully we'll be blessed with rain soon!!
Not as extensive or long as 2012 but still the 3rd year in a row we have experienced drought conditions here in the midwest
Heavy rainfall has kept the east dealing with mud and flooding but here in the heartland, record breaking scorching hot weather prevails.
80% of Iowa is dealing with extremely dry conditions where most have not seen rain since July
Fortunately winter rye will grow on a brick so with any rainfall at all this fall, it will grow! John shared a rocky spot where tilling is out of the question yet he grew rye there last fall, he rolled it, sprayed gly and will repeat the process this fall...great way to attract whitetails and build organic matter at the same time!
Scott has his seed mixes ready to go...large seeds
Small seeds
Remember to till in fertilizer, broadcast large seeds, cultipack, broadcast small seeds and re-cultipack
Jess has been busy tilling in urea in our area but where we have a great crop of red clover, less is needed. The rye was mowed off back in July leaving the red clover free to grow, fixing nitrogen and several ton of organic matter per acre.
In dry soils the seeds will generally lay there until sufficient rainfall is received to germinate them, but larger seeds can be planted -1" to 1 1/2" deep to get seeds closer to moisture. Easier with a drill but a light harrow could be beneficial in getting large seeds a little deeper, small seeds however are best off 1//8" to 1/4" deep.
Hopefully we'll be blessed with rain soon!!
Champdog21
New Member
Dbltree, can the urea be stored in metal 55 gal drums and sealed with the top, or will it be no good in a month or so?
dbltree
Super Moderator
It can be stored yes, but better in plastic drums then steel...might line the steel with heavy duty plastic leaf bags or some such. Urea will eat the snot out of anything metal if any moisture at all gets involved.
Sealed away from air and moisture it should be fine though
Daver
PMA Member
If you could see our mostly plastic, but has some metal parts, spreader you would know how true this is!
We foolishly used our spreader to cast fertilizer, not even as caustic as 46% urea, and then put it away...only to pull it back out a few weeks later and find a great deal of rust and corrosion. We have now rebuilt it and everything is good to go again, but fertilizer is one tough customer on metal.
Also, speaking from experience...we had a couple of bags of fertlizer get wet and I had the brainstorm to break the bags open and let them dry out, etc. So I took them inside the cabin and dumped them on the concrete floor...brilliant! I now have a permanent "ghost" image etched into the concrete where the fertlizer was for just one week!
Do as Paul says...store it inside some sort of plastic drum or barrel and airtight and you should be fine.
caj4isu
New Member
Did I miss the window / need options
So I've been a little busy this year, and did not get the brassicas planted at the property in July as I should have. I have only recently (3 weeks ago) went and mowed last year's winter rye and clover. A washout kept me from even getting to a brassica plot to check it out and to mow the alfalfa on that side of the ravine. My question is: Am I too late to even think about putting in the brassica part of the mix? I know I still have time for the winter rye part, but if I'm too late for the brassicas, what would you recommend planting in place to still have some variety in my plots? I'm planning to get some work done on plot prep this weekend.
Last year, I jumped on board with the mixes you recommend, but my planning was off, and I ended up putting two 1/2 acre plots of the rye mix on one part of the farm, and then another 1/2 acre plot of the 45% brassica / 45% rye / 10% clover all in one spot. I have another 1/2 acre plot of pure clover that I put in a few years ago that is really lush, but thinking about converting that to the 45/45/10 mix as well.
The property is 1-1/2 hours from my house which makes things a challenge, and my day job seems to get in the way of the important things in life such as foot plots!
So I've been a little busy this year, and did not get the brassicas planted at the property in July as I should have. I have only recently (3 weeks ago) went and mowed last year's winter rye and clover. A washout kept me from even getting to a brassica plot to check it out and to mow the alfalfa on that side of the ravine. My question is: Am I too late to even think about putting in the brassica part of the mix? I know I still have time for the winter rye part, but if I'm too late for the brassicas, what would you recommend planting in place to still have some variety in my plots? I'm planning to get some work done on plot prep this weekend.
Last year, I jumped on board with the mixes you recommend, but my planning was off, and I ended up putting two 1/2 acre plots of the rye mix on one part of the farm, and then another 1/2 acre plot of the 45% brassica / 45% rye / 10% clover all in one spot. I have another 1/2 acre plot of pure clover that I put in a few years ago that is really lush, but thinking about converting that to the 45/45/10 mix as well.
The property is 1-1/2 hours from my house which makes things a challenge, and my day job seems to get in the way of the important things in life such as foot plots!
dbltree
Super Moderator
As dry as i is I would forget brassicas and just plant the rye mix at this point, if rain was imminent you could get a little growth but that appears extremely unlikely this fall. Plant the rye mix...deer don't require variety abut even at that the rye mix is very diverse and will get the job done.
showstopper
PMA Member
I was planning on planting the rye mix this weekend but may wait as there is no rain forecasted. Would turkeys come through and eat the rye if I were to plant it and not get rain for say another couple weeks? Just wondering if you ever dealt with them with the cereal grain mix. Thanks
medicsnoke
Member
Tuesday I planted Dbltree's cereal grain mix....kinda:
Winter rye 50-80#'s per acre (56#'s = a bushel)
Spring forage oats 50-120#'s per acre (32#'s = a bushel)
Austrian Winter Peas or 4010/6040 Forage peas 20-80#'s per acre
Red Clover 8-12#'s per acre or white clover at 6#'s per acre (or 20-40 pounds hairy vetch and 20-30#'s crimson clover on sandy soils)
Groundhog Forage Radish 5#'s per acre
They have gotten 2 rains since then and bamm! they are up and running. Here is a link to the planting video:
Seed to Soil
Here is a picture of the germination only 4 days later! Should be a good little plot. I did 3 of these, prob 1 1/4 acre total.
Winter rye 50-80#'s per acre (56#'s = a bushel)
Spring forage oats 50-120#'s per acre (32#'s = a bushel)
Austrian Winter Peas or 4010/6040 Forage peas 20-80#'s per acre
Red Clover 8-12#'s per acre or white clover at 6#'s per acre (or 20-40 pounds hairy vetch and 20-30#'s crimson clover on sandy soils)
Groundhog Forage Radish 5#'s per acre
They have gotten 2 rains since then and bamm! they are up and running. Here is a link to the planting video:
Seed to Soil
Here is a picture of the germination only 4 days later! Should be a good little plot. I did 3 of these, prob 1 1/4 acre total.
dbltree
Super Moderator
Scott sent pics of his crimson clover planted this spring with oat and then clipped off the oats
Leaving behind a beautiful lush field of crimson clover (an annual clover not to be confused with red clover), the crimson fed deer all summer as well as fixing nitrogen for the rye mix to follow
The clover tilled under easily
The decomposing clover will release nitrogen for the cereal grain mix and in this case no additional nitrogen probably is needed
That's the beauty of adding legumes like red clover with the rye mix and crimson and/or berseem with oats following brassicas in the spring...clovers are extremely palatable to whitetails and provide more crude protein then they can even utilize. They also provide a tremendous amount of biomass and 50-150#'s of free nitrogen to boot!
If you are blessed with a no-till drill, simply nuke the clover with 2 quarts glyphosate and one quart crop oil and plant! You will build soils far faster not to mention saving time and fuel however I realize few have this option.
Leaving behind a beautiful lush field of crimson clover (an annual clover not to be confused with red clover), the crimson fed deer all summer as well as fixing nitrogen for the rye mix to follow
The clover tilled under easily
The decomposing clover will release nitrogen for the cereal grain mix and in this case no additional nitrogen probably is needed
That's the beauty of adding legumes like red clover with the rye mix and crimson and/or berseem with oats following brassicas in the spring...clovers are extremely palatable to whitetails and provide more crude protein then they can even utilize. They also provide a tremendous amount of biomass and 50-150#'s of free nitrogen to boot!
If you are blessed with a no-till drill, simply nuke the clover with 2 quarts glyphosate and one quart crop oil and plant! You will build soils far faster not to mention saving time and fuel however I realize few have this option.
I plan on discing up half an acre of clover and planting the cereal mix, prob on sept 7th 8th or 9th in west central Illinois, theres no rain in sight though, should I just plant the rye, oats, and clover, and save the peas and GHFR for next year, or will they grow enough for the deer to find? also can u freeze peas? and your brassica mix and plant next year?
dbltree
Super Moderator
It's difficult to say but if peas are planted an 1" to 1-1/2" they will germinate when the rye and oats do. Both peas and radish seed will keep, just store in a dry place and they'll be fine next year.
iowathumper
Active Member
So looking at the 10 day forecast for my area there is really no great percentage other then 10% here and there for a chance or rain.
My mowed tempory spring plots are rock hard been waiting on one rain to allow for tilling before I planted this mix.
Just wondering when the last day would be for planting the cereal grain mix is, and when would you eliminate the GFR from the mix?
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My mowed tempory spring plots are rock hard been waiting on one rain to allow for tilling before I planted this mix.
Just wondering when the last day would be for planting the cereal grain mix is, and when would you eliminate the GFR from the mix?
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dbltree
Super Moderator
So looking at the 10 day forecast for my area there is really no great percentage other then 10% here and there for a chance or rain.
My mowed tempory spring plots are rock hard been waiting on one rain to allow for tilling before I planted this mix.
Just wondering when the last day would be for planting the cereal grain mix is, and when would you eliminate the GFR from the mix?
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After the 15th I would leave out FR, the cereal mix can be planted into mid October but of course growth would be limited. We just go ahead plant and hope for rain, if soils are dry seed will lay there until it rains and far better to have it in the ground before rather then after...