Clover
- Thread starter dbltree
- Start date
dbltree
Super Moderator
First off i would spray they two herbicides separately if you can, the Butyrac 200 can lower the effectiveness of the clethodim of sprayed together. Secondly adding any stress at all is not going to be helpful to the clover so unless it's just an absolute weedy mess...I would probably wait til right after a rain...of course we may not get more rain either
You shouldn't need anymore fertilizer or lime right now, probably 200#'s each every other year will maintain it but you can soil test to be certain.
mshm99...thanks for the great pics....you have the best redneck equipment I have ever seen...awesome! :way:
skyleralan
PMA Member
Well, with the extreme dry conditions I don't think my clover plots I put in this spring are going to make it.
I think I will just wait until July kill a couple of the plots completely and put them into brassicas.
The other plots, I think I am going to re-till and just redo them into oats and red clover this fall.
What are your thoughts? The clover has burned tips and most of it is all grasses, very depressing after all the work I put in.
SW Iowa is in bad shape with the lack of rain!!!
I think I will just wait until July kill a couple of the plots completely and put them into brassicas.
The other plots, I think I am going to re-till and just redo them into oats and red clover this fall.
What are your thoughts? The clover has burned tips and most of it is all grasses, very depressing after all the work I put in.
SW Iowa is in bad shape with the lack of rain!!!
Thanks guys. With a 4' cut and 12 HP ,the red neck brush hog will knock it down quick. Trail mowing too. I was given an old MTD lawn tractor that had a strong motor , but needed more work than it was worth. Born was the "Red neck brush hog". I'm not done with the left over parts.
Up next: The Red Neck Heavy Duty BroadcastSpreader"
Coming by Spring. I can Red Green with the best of them!
Mike
Up next: The Red Neck Heavy Duty BroadcastSpreader"
Coming by Spring. I can Red Green with the best of them!
Mike
dbltree
Super Moderator
June 9th, 2012
I sprayed the following mix on a clover plot back in mid May...
The clover is in a bottomland area that is prone to flooding and sedges and pondweeds are common in this situation. I wanted to see how the above herbicide mix would work and if it would clean up the clover. I suspected however that the amount of gly was too low to kill the sedges and upon inspection a couple weeks after spraying the sedges did not appear to be dying.
I prepared a mix of Basagran and crop oil and went back to spray it again only to find that the sedges had indeed met their demise along with all the grasses and most other weeds while the clovers remain healthy.
The weeds there were the pond weeds and though the original plants had died a new set had come up
I sprayed the Basagran mix on the pond weeds and also on another area with more common annual ragweeds to see what if anything it controls.
Basagran Label
I'm also testing some annual clovers that include persian, berseem and balansa clovers...
and with critically dry weather they are indeed being put to the test so we'll see if they even survive?
I sprayed the following mix on a clover plot back in mid May...
The clover is in a bottomland area that is prone to flooding and sedges and pondweeds are common in this situation. I wanted to see how the above herbicide mix would work and if it would clean up the clover. I suspected however that the amount of gly was too low to kill the sedges and upon inspection a couple weeks after spraying the sedges did not appear to be dying.
I prepared a mix of Basagran and crop oil and went back to spray it again only to find that the sedges had indeed met their demise along with all the grasses and most other weeds while the clovers remain healthy.
The weeds there were the pond weeds and though the original plants had died a new set had come up
I sprayed the Basagran mix on the pond weeds and also on another area with more common annual ragweeds to see what if anything it controls.
Basagran Label
I'm also testing some annual clovers that include persian, berseem and balansa clovers...
and with critically dry weather they are indeed being put to the test so we'll see if they even survive?
dbltree
Super Moderator
June 19th, 2012
Increasingly more and more landowners are making clovers are much larger piece of their habitat pie and in areas with higher deer densities using it to help replace crops like soybeans and corn. Even a small number of deer feeding in a hidden field can quickly decimate either corn or soybeans but it is amazing how many deer can feed in a white clover plot only a fraction of the size.
Our white clovers were established with winter rye last fall and are a tremendous draw right now
Planted in late August/early September with the winter rye combination mix that includes red clover...
they don't have to compete with weeds, wet spring conditions and a host of other problems
and grow rapidly in the spring to provide a high protein, extremely palatable food source when deer need it most, both for lactating does and bucks during antler development
We plant white clover as a portion of our multiple food source feeding areas...shown here on the right side of the strip plot. Oats and annual clovers in the center (to be rotated to the rye combo) and winter rye and red clover on the far left (to be rotated in July to brassicas
Note the the white clover is being heavily grazed even though young soybeans are only feet away
Red clover planted with rye last fall is a temporary food and cover crop that will be tilled under for brassicas in mid July but also being heavily grazed while it fixes nitrogen at the same time!
Crimson clover mixed with berseem clovers and planted with oats that followed last years brassicas.
Berseem clover...grows taller and faster then crimson...both are not only highly attractive to deer but are fixing 50-120#'s of N per acre that can be utilized by the next crop of winter rye/oats/peas/radish and more red clover...
Using a combination of clovers adapted to your area is both an economical and efficient way of providing both a high quality food source and a crop that is excellent for your soil and your checkbook as well. NONE of the clovers shown are expensive "Buck on a Bag " seed, just common, well adapted varieties that don't cost an arm and a leg. Don't however plant the entire field to clover....divide it and plant multiple crops that will allow you to provide year around food sources....not matter what the weather or the number of deer living on your farm....
Increasingly more and more landowners are making clovers are much larger piece of their habitat pie and in areas with higher deer densities using it to help replace crops like soybeans and corn. Even a small number of deer feeding in a hidden field can quickly decimate either corn or soybeans but it is amazing how many deer can feed in a white clover plot only a fraction of the size.
Our white clovers were established with winter rye last fall and are a tremendous draw right now
Planted in late August/early September with the winter rye combination mix that includes red clover...
they don't have to compete with weeds, wet spring conditions and a host of other problems
and grow rapidly in the spring to provide a high protein, extremely palatable food source when deer need it most, both for lactating does and bucks during antler development
We plant white clover as a portion of our multiple food source feeding areas...shown here on the right side of the strip plot. Oats and annual clovers in the center (to be rotated to the rye combo) and winter rye and red clover on the far left (to be rotated in July to brassicas
Note the the white clover is being heavily grazed even though young soybeans are only feet away
Red clover planted with rye last fall is a temporary food and cover crop that will be tilled under for brassicas in mid July but also being heavily grazed while it fixes nitrogen at the same time!
Crimson clover mixed with berseem clovers and planted with oats that followed last years brassicas.
Berseem clover...grows taller and faster then crimson...both are not only highly attractive to deer but are fixing 50-120#'s of N per acre that can be utilized by the next crop of winter rye/oats/peas/radish and more red clover...
Using a combination of clovers adapted to your area is both an economical and efficient way of providing both a high quality food source and a crop that is excellent for your soil and your checkbook as well. NONE of the clovers shown are expensive "Buck on a Bag " seed, just common, well adapted varieties that don't cost an arm and a leg. Don't however plant the entire field to clover....divide it and plant multiple crops that will allow you to provide year around food sources....not matter what the weather or the number of deer living on your farm....
Alice Clover Problem
I planted Alice Clover about 6 weeks ago. We didn't get rain for approx. 3 wks. Since then we've had about 2". I see almost NO clover anywhere germinated and I mean almost NONE. Will I have to replant or is there still hope?? I also planted some CP25 at the same time and it almost all has come up. Advice appreciated.
I planted Alice Clover about 6 weeks ago. We didn't get rain for approx. 3 wks. Since then we've had about 2". I see almost NO clover anywhere germinated and I mean almost NONE. Will I have to replant or is there still hope?? I also planted some CP25 at the same time and it almost all has come up. Advice appreciated.
dbltree
Super Moderator
Here's the combination that I start clover with in late August....
It's not necessary to add all those items to the mix but it does make a great fall/winter food source while establishing the clover.
I never use wheat for a variety of reasons but one is because it tillers in the spring and suffocates clovers while rye does not.
It's not necessary to add all those items to the mix but it does make a great fall/winter food source while establishing the clover.
I never use wheat for a variety of reasons but one is because it tillers in the spring and suffocates clovers while rye does not.
I planted alice white clover this spring with berseem and oats. I have not mowed any of the clover areas yet. Would it work if I over seeded some more clover into it before I mow? Or would the clippings choke out new clover seed. Just seems like the clippings would help hold moisture while the seed germinates.
skyleralan
PMA Member
I was right there with you buddy, stinks putting in all that time, but lesson learned! NO SPRING PLANTING! Either later Feb. frost seeding or Fall planting only!
dbltree
Super Moderator
:way::way:
June 28th, 2012
We've been experimenting with various herbicides on a clover plot this past spring and early summer....1st spraying 6-8 ounces of 53% glyphosate, 10 ounces of clethodim and 1 quart crop oil. That mixed nuked everything but pond weeds in this low lying clover and at first I thought the sedges survived. I returned several weeks later to spray Basagran and crop oil mainly to kill the sedges only to find they had in fact been killed by the low does of gly...I went a head and sprayed to see what if any effect it would have on the pond weeds...and the result was zero!
I believe the gly burned down the water plants but they re-emerged later and appear to be the only problem weed at this point
Grasses are all dead with the exception of a few clumps of Reeds Canary grass emerging from seed
and all clovers appear healthy and unscathed by anything applied thus far
This time around I sprayed 2 quarts of 2-4DB Butyrac 200 Herbicide with NO crop oil on both the pondweeds and on some oats/berseem clover with some ragweeds in it to see how that does?
Butyrac 200 Herbicide
2-4DB is more effective on smaller weeds and all of the weeds sprayed are pretty good sized so we'll see how it works out? It's not recommended to mix clethodim and 2-4DB as it reduces the effectiveness of the clethodim so be sure to spray these two herbicides separately for best results....
dbltree
Super Moderator
July 7th, 2012
Butyrac 200 - 2-4DB
I tested Butyrac 200 at 2 quarts per acre with the following results...pondweeds dead!
Areas I missed were obvious
After first spraying 10-12 ounces clethodim, 6-8 ounces glyphosate and 1 quart crop oil and killing grasses and then spraying Basagran and crop oil to kill sedges (that ended up dying from the gly anyway) and then killing broadleaves with the 204DB...this older clover plot is finally looking better
and after all of that herbicide the hardy white clovers remain unaffected
I was disappointed to find that the 2-4DB did NOT kill the larger ragweeds in an oat/berseem planting
the label warns that these weeds need to be sprayed while very small to get effective control so keep that in mind if you use Butyrac 200 for broadleaf control in clovers. In most cases the gly/clethodim mix will clean up most white clover plots and a follow up clipping will take care of many broadleaf weeds but it is nice to have options and understand the limitations of the various herbicides.
If your budget can swing it, Raptor herbicide controls a wider range of grass and broadleaves and is safe on clovers and chicory as well
Raptor Source
When white clover is healthy and robust, simply spraying the grasses with clethodim will usually keep it cleaned up and when the clover starts to thin I just rotate to brassicas or the rye mix for a season and then re-plant. Any bare spots in the clover will be filled with some other plant...none of which we want and with plenty of clover seed options it just doesn't make sense to attempt to keep a sub par clover plot going.
Clover seed options
Make sure white clover (or clover suitable for your area) is a part of every feeding area to help insure you have year around food sources.... :way:
Butyrac 200 - 2-4DB
I tested Butyrac 200 at 2 quarts per acre with the following results...pondweeds dead!
Areas I missed were obvious
After first spraying 10-12 ounces clethodim, 6-8 ounces glyphosate and 1 quart crop oil and killing grasses and then spraying Basagran and crop oil to kill sedges (that ended up dying from the gly anyway) and then killing broadleaves with the 204DB...this older clover plot is finally looking better
and after all of that herbicide the hardy white clovers remain unaffected
I was disappointed to find that the 2-4DB did NOT kill the larger ragweeds in an oat/berseem planting
the label warns that these weeds need to be sprayed while very small to get effective control so keep that in mind if you use Butyrac 200 for broadleaf control in clovers. In most cases the gly/clethodim mix will clean up most white clover plots and a follow up clipping will take care of many broadleaf weeds but it is nice to have options and understand the limitations of the various herbicides.
If your budget can swing it, Raptor herbicide controls a wider range of grass and broadleaves and is safe on clovers and chicory as well
Raptor Source
When white clover is healthy and robust, simply spraying the grasses with clethodim will usually keep it cleaned up and when the clover starts to thin I just rotate to brassicas or the rye mix for a season and then re-plant. Any bare spots in the clover will be filled with some other plant...none of which we want and with plenty of clover seed options it just doesn't make sense to attempt to keep a sub par clover plot going.
Clover seed options
Make sure white clover (or clover suitable for your area) is a part of every feeding area to help insure you have year around food sources.... :way:
dbltree
Super Moderator
If you can avoid it I would prefer to see you wait on mowing for certain and if not life threatening the spraying too...no reason to add stress during a drought situation Tony.
dbltree
Super Moderator
July 23rd, 2012
White clover planted with the rye mix in the fall....best way bar none I have found for establishing white clover without fighting weeds etc.
The allelopathic and smothering effects of the winter rye really help keep weeds to a minimum
and the clover is lush and healthy despite a very serious drought and as you can see, being grazed heavily by whitetails...
I plant the usual fall rye mix and just add the appropriate amount of white clover to the mix
the rye straw has helped hold critical soil moisture
and increase top soil organic matter
white clover is simply one of the most economical yet most effective food sources I have ever planted
so I make it a part of every feeding area
and no one complains about the results....
Add white clover to your fall rye mix, planting around the perimeter, corners, odd areas, travel lanes or simply in strips among your other food sources. Check locally for seed but if not available in your area here are a couple sources where you can order seed by the pound and have it shipped to your door.
Welter Seed carries Alice, KopuII, Jumbo Ladino and others.
Aaron Palm at Iowa- Missouri Hybrids in Keosauqua Iowa carries a number of white, red and annual clover seeds and can pre-mix seed is you wish.
cell 641-919-1695
Office 319-293-3114
Aaron also carries all of the seeds mentioned above for the rye mix and can pre-mix if necessary but large seeds are expensive to ship so in all cases always check locally before ordering seeds of any kinds....
White clover planted with the rye mix in the fall....best way bar none I have found for establishing white clover without fighting weeds etc.
The allelopathic and smothering effects of the winter rye really help keep weeds to a minimum
and the clover is lush and healthy despite a very serious drought and as you can see, being grazed heavily by whitetails...
I plant the usual fall rye mix and just add the appropriate amount of white clover to the mix
the rye straw has helped hold critical soil moisture
and increase top soil organic matter
white clover is simply one of the most economical yet most effective food sources I have ever planted
so I make it a part of every feeding area
and no one complains about the results....
Add white clover to your fall rye mix, planting around the perimeter, corners, odd areas, travel lanes or simply in strips among your other food sources. Check locally for seed but if not available in your area here are a couple sources where you can order seed by the pound and have it shipped to your door.
Welter Seed carries Alice, KopuII, Jumbo Ladino and others.
Aaron Palm at Iowa- Missouri Hybrids in Keosauqua Iowa carries a number of white, red and annual clover seeds and can pre-mix seed is you wish.
cell 641-919-1695
Office 319-293-3114
Aaron also carries all of the seeds mentioned above for the rye mix and can pre-mix if necessary but large seeds are expensive to ship so in all cases always check locally before ordering seeds of any kinds....
DUG
New Member
Alice white clover turned black!
I am in southern Illinois and our particular location has received hardly any rain at all since may. My alice white clover is completely gone turned black and crunchy. I had the most beautiful stand this spring!!!. Is it gone for good or will it come back this fall with some rain? If not I am tilling it under and planting everything in the rye mix and brassica. My soybeans never came up either. It is going to be an interesting fall in my area. All of the corn is zero and it will be bush hogged. Lets hope for a wet fall!:way:
I am in southern Illinois and our particular location has received hardly any rain at all since may. My alice white clover is completely gone turned black and crunchy. I had the most beautiful stand this spring!!!
. Is it gone for good or will it come back this fall with some rain? If not I am tilling it under and planting everything in the rye mix and brassica. My soybeans never came up either. It is going to be an interesting fall in my area. All of the corn is zero and it will be bush hogged. Lets hope for a wet fall!:way: