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Clover

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Are these 4 acre/2.5 acre plots more appeaing for clover or is that big enough toget someone in there to mow alfalfa </div></div>

Where I live there are lots of small fields like that, which farmers use for alfalfa but either clover or alfalfa should be appealing to deer.

Late season the clover I suspect will not hold up compared to alfalfa but it may still provide a draw if it is the only "green" in the area. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif
 
I would have to disagree with what some of the others have said about clover not being very attractive to deer later into the Fall.

If your plot is already hammered by then, well yes. But, if you plan your last mowing in August and leave it alone, the deer will use it well into the Winter.

I guess it depends on how good your stand of clover is going into the Fall. My problem has never been over browsing, its been being able to keep up with mowing it back.

Every year the deer will be all over the field when it is covered in snow scratching for the green clover. No sign of that in the local alfalfa fields.

It's really hard to make general statements. One guy will tell you his turnips got hammered, and another guy will tell you his turnips didn't get touched.

I do know deer will utilize clover in my area year round.

p.s. I mowed my clover plot two weeks ago because it was starting to get a bit grassy/steamy and was about 18 inches tall.
 
8 to 10 inches Tony. I just raise the deck on my 620 Allis and roll like that. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

It will really thicken up your plot. I allows more sunlight into the newly growing clover below. This is what the deer prefer, instead of the tall steamy mature clover.

I mowed 5 or 6 times last Summer. Really helps with grass and weed control too. This is the first year I am going to spray SELECT.
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's really hard to make general statements. One guy will tell you his turnips got hammered, and another guy will tell you his turnips didn't get touched.
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Ghost is right of course, no one should ever think that on type of food plot is right for everyone in all situations. Even different varieties within a crop such as clover, we all have very different soil types and surrounding competition to deal with.

Lots and lots of variables and options which makes this forum so valuable as a means to share what works for different people.

Half the fun for me is trying different things to see what will work best for me but I find very different results just between my two farms so it's important to remember nothing is cut in stone. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif
 
I think another thing worth mentioning is that judging by the pictures that Ghost has posted of his clover plots, they look far better than mine so that could also play a big part in what the deer prefer in a given area. Also, some of my clover is more secluded in terms of visibility to the road, etc, and some is fairly visible to the road. The more secluded areas are generally more popular with the deer of course.

In the end, trial and experience will reveal what is best in your area.
 
Great tips Ghost! I had a VERY SMALL 1/4 or less clover plot last year that I had deer coming to through January. I would find patches where they were pawing through the field and I had cut corn and 1/4 standing corn around me that I left! So, I was confused why they did this while most everyone always tod me after first frost its over. Wasn't sure if my clover aws different etc. I am below a rookie at food plots..fast learning curve! So, I guess it really depends on your area but Ghost def Increased my confidence for this next year as I planted quit a few more acres this spring! I planted turnips two years ago, milo, brassicas and they won't touch it, relatively speaking, so who knows?? Thats the fun though!
 
If you had choice of say 2-4 clovers ONLY, which would you choose as the very best, pretend cost is not an issue what-so-ever. I do not have NEAR the experience BUT have had good luck with Alice White, Jumbo Ladino and Persist Red. Some of what I am looking for is obvious- high protein, late dormancy, great forage & establishment/maintanence, etc. What's your choice/opinion?
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sligh1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you had choice of say 2-4 clovers ONLY, which would you choose as the very best, pretend cost is not an issue what-so-ever. I do not have NEAR the experience BUT have had good luck with Alice White, Jumbo Ladino and Persist Red. Some of what I am looking for is obvious- high protein, late dormancy, great forage & establishment/maintanence, etc. What's your choice/opinion? </div></div>

You'll get a hundred (at least /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif )different opinions on this subject and to be honest if price is not of the essence, there are many great white clovers that if planted side by side I doubt that deer or landowners could tell the difference.

Clovers are bred for grazing and drought resistant attributes and I know that Alice and Durana clovers are at the top of the list.

I like to mix up my own "concoctions" so that I don't have all my "eggs in one basket" so to speak. I plant Alice, Kopu 2 and Jumbo Ladino or straight Durana.
I would dare anyone to plant almost any good quality white clover and then tell me "deer don't like it"... /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif

Protien content in white clover is one of the highest and the difference between clover varieties is minimal despite "advertising claims". Looking back through this thread you can see that I have planted all types of white clovers and name brand mixes and in the end Alice and Durana work best for me just based on growth and drought resistance. Jumbo Ladino gets a little taller but that's about the only difference in that regard.

Deer eat all of it without hesitation and the only ones that have failed at seeding were some of the "big name brands" (why I don't know)

Red clover is something different altogether and requires a little more management to keep it from getting rank.

I'd like to hear from anyone who has tried a variety of white clover that they don't like because...it failed? Deer won't eat it? Deer eat something else instead?

Besides Skip...I'm planting a "secret weapon" and they will all be at my place... /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/sleep.gif /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif
 
These are June 1st pics of last years clover plantings and some newly seeded clover.

There always questions about the "best" clover but that's a litle like asking farmers which is the "best" seed corn or if Ford or Chevy is better (obviously FORD! /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/sleep.gif /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif )

Each clover variety has each own positive attributes and of course this is why one rarely plants just one variety. Mixing several together gives us a chance to have the best of each one and less likely to have it fail entirely due to drought, over grazing etc.

Keep in mind that the clover I planted last year is on poor, unimproved ground that hasn't been tilled in well over 20 years!

I planted test plots in strips in one of my tree plantings. No lime, no fertilizer and last summer...no care of any kind until the ragweeds were over the hood of Alice! /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

WeedCrop.jpg


You could say that I tested these clovers under the very worst of conditions and those that survive...well, imagine if one planted them on great soil with proper PH and fertility! /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif

They could stand to be clipped and I have plans to spray with Select this summer but here are the "survivors of last years plantings.

Durana Clover

This clover has done very well although this is not a great picture, it's very thick, not to tall and did very well. Some weed growth makes it look not very clean but close up it looks fantastic. I can only imagine what Durana would look like on good fertile ground. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Duranaclover6-1-08.jpg


I planted a mix of Alice, Kopu 2 and Jumbo Ladino white clovers from Welter Seed and these clovers have not failed me regardless of how poor the soil was.

Alicenkopu2clover.jpg


This is just a pic of the Jumbo Ladino leaf in this mix

Jumboladinoclover.jpg


The Tecomate Clover mix is the only commercial mix that didn't fail, again that doesn't mean that under proper conditions that the others wouldn't have thrived...but it does tell you something about the more expensive seed mixes... /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

Tecomateclovermix6-1-08-1.jpg


There was chicory in the Tecomate mix which also seems to be doing fine.

Tecomateclovernchicory-1.jpg


I'll share pics of these later this summer after I get them clipped and sprayed but it's always interesting to show them under the worst adverse conditions, rather then only the very best.

Clovers such as Alice and Durana were specificlly developed to survive under very dry conditions and they have proven that to me.

I also planted the Welter mix on my good soil this spring to compare with alfalfa and other types of food plots. I planted them with forage oats and mixed in some berseem clover.

This seed was left over from last year but seemed to have excellent germination.

Clover6-01.jpg


Baby Alice white clover:

S5001104.jpg


The only problem I expect here is a flush of foxtail anytime now, but I can clip and/or spray with Select to clean it up.

S5001099.jpg


If anyone has pics of their own clover plantings or different varieties of white clovers that you can sahre, please post it here for more comparisons. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif
 
Scenario & QUESTION.

I planted to different plots both in Clover/Alf-alfa mix. Plot 1 - I BLASTED it several times with round-up, I mean FRIED it! Plot 2 I hit it with Round-up once (good weather) and hit it pretty good. Planted both within a few days of last spraying. Plot 1 I planted seed really thick (I think like 20 lbs to acre). Plot 2 I planted lighter, around 10-13 lbs to the acre. Planted both about 3-4 weeks ago.

Plot 1 has no weeds and is coming up thick and AMAZING!!!
Plot 2 is coming up nice BUT has a lot of grasses mixed in.

BASICALLY, should I hit it with SELECT, if so when (more than once?)? If I hit it with Select where do I get it at best price? I'm sure there's mixing instructions on how concentrated to make it? OR should I continue to mow and not worry bout grass this year?
 
Grasses unlike broadleaves aren't going away (with the exception of foxtail)so eventually spraying with Select might be the answer.

I don't think it's a huge problem at this point though so you might wait and allow more grasses to emerge, perhaps even clip once, and then spray the new regrowth.


Clover is very well adapted to co-existing with grass, that's why we interseed it into cattle pastures. So grasses aren't going to kill the clover or anything but eventually grass will continue to invade and take over. Spraying a grass herbicide will help take care of that problem
 
THANKS dbltree, much appreciated as usual!
Is there another thread here that talks about cheapest and best place to purchase SELECT if I later decide to go that route. And concentration instructions?
Does it hinder, stress or set back clover/alf-alfa at all?

Thanks again!!!!
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sligh1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">THANKS dbltree, much appreciated as usual!
Is there another thread here that talks about cheapest and best place to purchase SELECT if I later decide to go that route. And concentration instructions?
Does it hinder, stress or set back clover/alf-alfa at all?

Thanks again!!!! </div></div>

Check the herbicide thread to find Select labels but 6-8 ounces per acre should do it without causing harm to seedling alfalfa and clover.

Remember you'll need to add 1% crop oil as well so pick up a gallon when you get yout Select.

Check with nannyslayer as far as price and availability but most ag suppliers in areas where hay is grown should carry Select herbicide. Prices change of course but I suspect your looking at roughly $135 a gallon depending on the exact product.

There are several types, Select 2 EC and Select Max for instance but I'm not aware of any major differences as far as clover and alfalfa are concerned. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif
 
dbltree, I mentioned spraying some SELECT on some new clover/alf-alfa planting. Covered and smothered with grass. Now, there's lots of spots with no clover or alf-alfa. (Out of 4 plots, this was the only one that turned out like this!). It's sparse and spotty. If I spread some clover in August or something before a rain, would that thicken it up. Basically, is there anyway to add more clover to make it thicker this year? Or am I just going to have to frost seed later. THANKS!!!
 
Skip,

Yes you can have some luck broadcasting clover in late Summer as long as we have the rains to get good seed to soil contact.

Obviously this doesn't work as well as frost seeding or seeding a new plot. I would also recommend to max out the seed application rate.

It will be hit or miss depending on the rain though.
 
THANKS GHOST, I'll give it a whirl, this is only about a 1/2 to 3/4 acre plot SO putting a lot of seed PER ACRE won't be as costly, thanks much!
 
Ghost or DblTree-I am having the same problem as Sligh1. Some spots look amazing, others bare. My grasses are taking off too but there is alot of clover around them. Hopefully as time goes on the grasses will die off and the clover will tke over. Don't want to cut now because they are new seedlings.

Will future mwing have the same effect as Select?

In your opinion would it be better to frost seed than re-apply in August preceding a rain?

Also, when re-seeding or seeding in general, how many lbs per acre should I use of clover (red/white/ ladino mix)? Just trying to make sure I don't have to buy more seed than I have to.

Thanks..you guys are a HUGE help for a rookie in plots!
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My grasses are taking off too but there is alot of clover around them. Hopefully as time goes on the grasses will die off and the clover will tke over. Don't want to cut now because they are new seedlings.

Will future mwing have the same effect as Select?

In your opinion would it be better to frost seed than re-apply in August preceding a rain?

Also, when re-seeding or seeding in general, how many lbs per acre should I use of clover (red/white/ ladino mix)? Just trying to make sure I don't have to buy more seed than I have to.
</div></div>

The grasses aren't going to "die out" in fact they will thicken and spread unless you use a grass herbicide like Select.

Mowing will have no effect on grasses, however it will help control broadleaf weeds. Just like the "grass" in your lawn, the grass in your clover plot will just keep coming back.

Frost seeding would be more effective but if you can broadcast some ahead of a good soaker later this summer it just might work. Soil/seed contact is the kicker and the freezing/thawing action of late winter is helpful in making that contact.

Red clover is generally broadcast at 8-15# per acre but ladino (white) clover is usually much less at 4-6#'s but again if conditions aren't to great then more might be better.

20#'s put on at the wrong time won't do what 2#'s put on properly will do. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif
 
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