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Clover

Re: Clover/ Durana

Has anyone heard of yuchi arrowleaf clover?

I was reading a management book here the other day based out of the south and they were very high on this clover. They said it was the highest protein based clover they found as well as the most drought and disease resistent. They said it out performed their white Ladino's every year because of it's tolerance and high protein base.

Is this just a clover for the south or would it be a good one here in the midwest?

I wouldn't mind trying it.
 
I had planned on planting a clover alfalfa mix this spring but I am now afraid of weeds based on this post. The plot is 4 Ac and was planted to beans last year but not harvested other than by the deer. I have read that a mix of clover and summer wheat will keep weeds at bay in the spring. You then cut the wheat to the height of the clover during the summer and the clover takes over. Has anyone tried this. Any other suggestions? Should I replant beans and then plant clover this fall?
 
There are herbicides to clean up weeds in clover/alfalfa. However, I feel its easier to clean them up in corn or beans. If you are concerned about weeds, I would plant RRCorn/RRbeans this spring and spray any weeds with glyphosate. I would then come back around Labor Day and plant wheat/clover. You will have a good attraction plot this fall and clover next year.

Tim
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BBloom</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I had planned on planting a clover alfalfa mix this spring but I am now afraid of weeds based on this post. The plot is 4 Ac and was planted to beans last year but not harvested other than by the deer. I have read that a mix of clover and summer wheat will keep weeds at bay in the spring. You then cut the wheat to the height of the clover during the summer and the clover takes over. Has anyone tried this. Any other suggestions? Should I replant beans and then plant clover this fall? </div></div>

Weeds can be a problem with spring planted clover so most of us use oats although wheat would serve the same purpose and clip it off later in the summer. The "nurse crop" will help hold back weeds by shading them and out competing them while the clover is small.

Fall planted clover can also be planted with oats for a great fall food plot and no clipping required. (no weeds either /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif )

You can roundup all you want ahead of time but usually weeds will come back, often within 2 weeks if the ground is tilled.

Fall or frost seeding makes that less of a problem. Lots of options so it's just a matter of what might work best for you. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif
 
Re: Clover/ Durana

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TallTines</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Has anyone heard of yuchi arrowleaf clover?

I was reading a management book here the other day based out of the south and they were very high on this clover. They said it was the highest protein based clover they found as well as the most drought and disease resistent. They said it out performed their white Ladino's every year because of it's tolerance and high protein base.

Is this just a clover for the south or would it be a good one here in the midwest?

I wouldn't mind trying it. </div></div>

I believe it needs to be planted where there are milder winters

Arrowleaf Clover

If you try some however, however let us know how it does /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif
 
I have a maintenance question. How does mowing competing grasses in a clover plot actually help. Once you clip the grasses, does the clover actually begin to outgrow the grasses?? I have 3 acre plot here in southern MI, that has a lot of clover but the grass was already close to a foot tall. I mowed it yesterday and wonder what to expect?? Do I keep mowing it or spray with a herbicide. Thanks for the info!!
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How does mowing competing grasses in a clover plot actually help. Once you clip the grasses, does the clover actually begin to outgrow the grasses?? </div></div>

Clover is low growing so keeping the grasses clipped off above the clover will help it to compete but without spraying I'm afraid the grasses aren't going away.

Using a good grass herbicide like Select will help get rid of the grasses while mowing is just going to barely keep them in check.

Clover and grass is a common combo for grazing cattle, so clover is perfectly capable of co-existing to some extent with grasses for awhile. Deer aren't crazy about grasses however so clipping them just above the clover will make it more readily available and more attractive to deer.

I try to kill grasses like brome (common in our area) with roundup before planting clover and then rotate to a nitrogen using crop such as brassicas when grass starts to re-invade in 3-4 years.

Alice white clover is capable of fixing up to 200 #'s of nitrogen per acre at a cost of $20 an acre for seed. With urea running $700-800 a ton (last I checked)...that's a pretty sweet deal.
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: risto2351</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Dbl,
can I use select for a clover, chicory plot?

If not what can I use??

Thanks. </div></div>

Select and Poast Plus are slective grass herbicides so I believe your safe using them on chicory.
 
Re: Clover - using Select® 2 EC Herbicide

Ghost and I were wondering..."when is the best time to spray Select EC herbicide"? So I looked up the label and one thing that is important is to spray before you mow it. Select works better when it has full leaf area to absorb the herbicide.

The label gives optimium heights for spraying various grasses as 2-24" depending on the type of grasses with rates at 8-12 ounces and using crop oil.

Ammonium Sulfate (AMS) can also be added to clethodim to improve performance.

Select® 2 EC Herbicide labels

General label


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Clover 15 days before grazing, feeding, or harvesting (cutting) for forage or hay 6 – 16 fl oz 1% v/v in the finished spray volume
Do not exceed 16 fl oz/A in a season.
</div></div>

Clethodim Label

Select is roughly $130 a gallon which of course could vary depending on location and generic version.

128 ounces per gallon applied at roughly 12 ounces per acre your talking about 10 acres or so per gallon...or $13 an acre.

Most food plotter would be best off to split a gallon if they only have 3-4 acres to do. Select does have other uses including brassicas and soybeans and I'll post labels in those threads as well.
 
Re: Clover - using Select® 2 EC Herbicide

Another thing to add Dbltree is, if you do mow the grass and clover, when the grass starts growing good again, that is a great time to spray Select. With the grasses growing good, they will absorb the chemical quickly and have a pretty quick effect.
 
QUESTION:
Ok, I read through many of the postings (did my homework in other words!) BUT I thought I'd cut to the chase. There were some mixed opinions on best chemicals and timing, etc.

I planted 4 plots this weekend, all contain Grazing Alf-alfa, Ladino, Alyce White, Persist Red, and Alsike all mixed together.

WHEN AND WHAT should I spray them with? Select? How many times and when is the best time to spray? Where's best place to buy this and what rate would you mix with a 25 gallon 4-wheeler sprayer? Lastly, how would you incorporate mowing into this, could I mow only and avoid spraying? (when should I 1st mow- obviously when weeds are gaining?).

FYI- 3 plots were on farely bare ground where I could seed with 4 wheeler after I hit with round-up a few days prior. Other plot is drilled into killed brome sod.
THANKS!!!!!!!!!!!
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">WHEN AND WHAT should I spray them with? Select? How many times and when is the best time to spray? Where's best place to buy this and what rate would you mix with a 25 gallon 4-wheeler sprayer? Lastly, how would you incorporate mowing into this, could I mow only and avoid spraying? (when should I 1st mow- obviously when weeds are gaining?).
</div></div>

First lets wait and see if the plots even need to be sprayed. If you killed the sod good first with roundup, grass most likely won't be a problem the first year or two.

Grass often invades as clover plots get older and then one needs to spray a grass selective herbicide.

Weeds in new plots can usually be controlled with clipping above the new clover seedlings the first year.

Mow clover as needed as it gets too tall which may not even happen the first year. One just has to moniter it, but the 2nd and third years it may need to be mowed 4-5 times a year depending on moisture and soil fertility.

Check the herbicide thread for link to calibrating your sprayer which is the first step in determining amount of product you'll need to mix with water.
 
Will mowing controll thisles. I have one plot, that is about an acre and was seeded last fall, that has a lot of thisles coming on strong. My first thought was to spot spray with crossbow/2-4D mix because I have it on the shelf and it needs to go somewhere. Is this a good idea or bad. What's the best approach. By the way the clover looks very thick and I am sure a little mowing will take care of other weed concerns.
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Will mowing controll thistles. </div></div>

I've never had thistles come back after mowing several times in clover but...there's a first time for everything /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

I think I would give mowing a chance first and if a couple times doesn't do the trick then I would spray.
 
Since we are comparing alfalfa and clover in my plots this year I thought I would share a dramatic photo of white clover and alfalfa that I already have established:

WhiteClovernAlfalfa.jpg


The pic shows the difference and why there can be management problems with alfalfa versus clover because of the rapid growth and height differences. Each has distinct advantages and niether is right or wrong for anyone.

Both are very high in protien and highly sought after by deer /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif

ClovernAlfalfa.jpg


I did seed plots of Alice, Kopu 2, and Jumbo Ladino next to my new alfalfa plots and adjacent to the various other types of food plots that I just established for tests and comparisons.

I hope to use some trail cams and exculsion cages to compare usage as well as look at various management problems or obstacles.

Seedbed.jpg


I varied the seeding rates between 4-8#'s per acre, tilled and packed, seeded, re-packed as shown previously in this thread. I used inoculate from Welters but needed no lime or addtional fertlizer.

I did use forage oats as a nurse crop.

Tillnpack.jpg
 
I know you said one isn't better than another as they each have ups/downs BUT when you are sitting on the plots or hunting them, do you notice deer seem to prefer one of the areas or plots more than the others?
At certain times of year do certain plots do better there than others next to them for having deer feed on them, say Alf-alfa vs. clover in Nov/Dec? Jan or say early season even?
 
In my experience, once you have a couple of good frosts on a clover food plot that has been trimmed down anyway by the ravaging herds, you don't have much food left to supply for the rest of the fall/winter. Clover is good and cheap, comparatively, and easier to start and maintain, but it also "goes away" quicker in the late fall. For me, the deer aren't really coming to the clover much after say late October, it is normally too short by then.

Meanwhile, although I have no alfalfa on my land proper, there are two sizeable fields of it adjacent to me and the deer will be in those, and other alfalfa fields far longer into the late fall/winter. Based upon my observations, in my area, it would be tough to beat alfalfa, even late into Jan/Feb, than even corn stalks and the clover is long gone by that point.
 
Daver hit the nail on the head...late season alfalfa wins hands down on both my places. Alfalfa is just a "tougher" plant in that it has a stronger stem/root crown and hold green foliage around the bottom even in late winter.

They will feed on clover as long as it is there OR if it is the only feed available, but if alfalfa is anywhere close they will travel straight thru everything else with the exception of freshly combined corn.

Clover obviously is much easier to maintain due to it's short nature and it is tender and appealing. In October when its warm I suspect they would take either/or...but later on...well, look at the late season pics of deer feeding in the alfalfa and pics of the green foliage late in the season in the alfalfa thread.

All that aside...I will post pics as i go showing the difficulties in mowing alfalfa often enough to keep it from suffacating itself while white clover will be a piece of cake.

Always check on the possibles of a farmer putting up your alfalfa for hay...then it's a win win situation!! Nothing for you to do but hunt!

For smaller plots and for landowners who can only spend limited time at thier farm, clover is most likely the only viable option. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif
 
We just planted 3.9 acres of clover on one plot and another 2.5 in another. We were hoping for alfalfa as I told dbltree but had to go with clover due to the lateness of the planting AND the fact that I wanted some food this fall and good green next spring for turkeys. Are these 4 acre/2.5 acre plots more appeaing for clover or is that big enough toget someone in there to mow alfalfa. Wish I could of done alfalfa but my hands were tied. Hopefully still draws em in!
 
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