dbltree
Super Moderator
Sorry I have been trying to ctach up on field work now that the rains have stopped..
It sounds to me like you need to shut off the water to dry up the crabgrass and allow the NWSG to dominate as you are seeing in the corners.
Because you have a mixed NWSG planting it makes using herbicides difficult because there is none that might not have an effect on the others.
Big Bluestem and Little Bluestem are probably better adapted to your area and will probably perform equally as well as switchgrass. Switchgrass really prefers moist rich soils although it will grow on sandy droughty soils...just not as tall and robust.
I'm not sure if I am answering your questions or not so holler back and we'll see if we can address them. If you can get some pics that would be helpful too...either post them or email to dbltree2000@yahoo.com
Thanks, dbltree! Wow, I am excited by your suggestion to shut off the sprinkler. Would you be able to elaborate on your thinking on that one. I will say that on the corners there never was any pressure from the crabgrass. I will try and do the pictures asap. Anyway I would love to hear your reasoning regarding the irrigation. Hoping to hear from you soon, thanks again, chronic.
I would like to add, dbltree, that I am not questioning your expertise, I am just the kind of guy who likes to know the reasoning behind things. Also, I just paid my diesel fuel bill that runs the irrigation-$4500.00. If I was smart I would shut it off and never question why!!!!
dbltree
Super Moderator
NWSG's are adapted to dry hot summer conditions and cool seasons like the crabgrass are not and thatis evident by the fact that in the non-irrigated corners the natives are thriving and the crabgrass is not.
Our native prairies existed for thousands of years with no help from anyone except for prairie burns started by Native Americans who knew that a burn = green grass = bison returning...
If the corners with no water also had no NWSG then you might have cause for concern but since that is not the case...shutoff the water and starve the cool season competition.
You may have to monitor the natives that have been recieving water because they may need some time to adjust and allow thier roots to go deeper in search of. If they start to suffer water them but do so far less frequently until they have adapted....:way:
I don't know about Iowa, dbltree, but in Kansas, crabgrass is a warm season grass that does not germinate until the ground temperature is warm enough for nwsg to germinate also. Hence, my big problem. It puts out tons of seed, when the nwsg is drilled it incorporates the crabgrass also and it all germinates at dang near the same time. I don't know how much the crabgrass is going to hurt me but I want to minimize the damage it does.
letemgrow
PMA Member
I always considered crabgrass a warm season annual. I see it pop up all over when it really gets warm out and crabgrass handles dry conditions very well in my area at least.
There may be some herbicides that can be used to get rid of the crabgrass and keep the nwsg. I know outrider can be used for certain nwsg's, but not sure if it has any affect on crabgrass or not. May be something for you to look into chronic.
There may be some herbicides that can be used to get rid of the crabgrass and keep the nwsg. I know outrider can be used for certain nwsg's, but not sure if it has any affect on crabgrass or not. May be something for you to look into chronic.
letemgrow
PMA Member
Here is a link to the Outrider Label: It does not label crabgrass, but several other plants are on there and it can also be used for residual control around tree plantings.
http://www.biotechgoodtogrow.com/monsanto/ag_products/pdf/labels_msds/outrider_label.pdf
http://www.biotechgoodtogrow.com/monsanto/ag_products/pdf/labels_msds/outrider_label.pdf
Thanks letemgrow, well last night and early this morning we received a total of 2.5 inches of rain. I shut off my sprinkler and plan to leave it off for the next few days. Probably not much I can do at this point but waite till next year and use a product called Plateau that is labeled for crabgrass and will not harm the other established nwsg which includes some switchgrass. I think I am going to spray my corners with some 24d and ALLY. Thank God for the wonderful rain we received. I saw a nice buck this morning bounding around the edge of the cornfield next to my crp this morning.
dbltree
Super Moderator
Actually crabgrass is a tropical grass so it requires copious amounts of water to thrive and that's what your doing by irrigating.
If you read the beginning of this thread you'll also see two other important things...
We try to dormant seed NWSG in the winter time (the natural way that NWSG existed for thousands of years) and in that way we avoid disturbing the soil as you did with your drill.
Secondly Plateau or Panoramic are awesome pre-emergence herbicides that would save you an enormous amount of money over irrigating.
Paramount or Drive are great post emergence herbicides that will kill crabgrass and foxtail and are safe for most NWSG's.
Paramount Label
Shut off the water and the crabgrass will struggle to survive, leave it on and it will thrive in the moist hot conditions...
Yes dbltree, I have read the beginning of this thread and much more of it, however, as I stated in my original post, plenty of mistakes have been made before I ever found this forum and I am looking to go from where I am at to somewhere better. I thank you for your advice. I looked at that paramount label and it seems like a good possiblity for me, odd that it is not even listed in the list of approved herbicides for kansas crp.
dbltree
Super Moderator
Its also available as "Drive 75" and sold as a turf control product so you might find it under that label locally too.
Good luck with your NWSG and keep us posted on what you end up doing and how it responds...we all learn from each other here and you are in a very different area then most of us are used too....
Good luck with your NWSG and keep us posted on what you end up doing and how it responds...we all learn from each other here and you are in a very different area then most of us are used too....
dbltree
Super Moderator
Usually the NWSG will take over the second year and you won't have to worry about it but I am curious about how many ounces of Panoramic you applied per acre?
dbltree
Super Moderator
At this stage of the game it's probably not going to matter and you could just ride it out for the season but you can spray with Paramount or Drive 75 (same thing) and kill the foxtail without harming the switch.
Kinda pricey too so you'll have to decide if you want to mess with it or not. See the front page of this thread for mor info and look up both labels in the herbicide thread as well.
In a few weeks frost will kill the foxtail for the year and next year the switch will out compete the foxtail...
At this stage of the game it's probably not going to matter and you could just ride it out for the season but you can spray with Paramount or Drive 75 (same thing) and kill the foxtail without harming the switch.
Kinda pricey too so you'll have to decide if you want to mess with it or not. See the front page of this thread for mor info and look up both labels in the herbicide thread as well.
In a few weeks frost will kill the foxtail for the year and next year the switch will out compete the foxtail...
I think I'll just let it go. Thanks for your help!!!