Alfalfa

[dbltree]

Re: Alfalfa - Results of using Select Herbicide

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: huntyak</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We mowed about 1 wk ago so I'll hit those fields this Wednesday. So if the field is 5 acres, add about 7-8 oz of select to the 1 gallon drum and use it all per acre. Do this 5x over the entire field and it should nuke it? Thanks. </div></div>

Here's the deal with any spraying regardless if it is a one gallon or a 1000 gallons....

You must know how many gallons of water you are applying per acre??? It's impossible to determine any application rates without knowing that.

You really need to calibrate your sprayer and know who much a gallon of spray will cover. I believe we have calibration links in the herbicide thread or...just put in a 1/2 gallon of water and see how far it goes??

43,560 sq ft in an acre so how much to do 435 sq feet for example?

You need need to know how many acres that 1 or 5 or 15 gallon sprayer will cover and then we can figure out exactly how much product to mix with it.

My 2 1/2 gallon backpack sprayer at a steady walk will cover about an acre....makes for easy figurin' /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

2 1/2 gallons. 8 ounces of Select, (shot of crop oil /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif )and one acres worth of "hoofin" it!

My field sprayer in first gear, high range (using Alice) puts on 20 gallons of water per acre, so speed makes a big difference in amount of water and hence, product per acre.

If your one gallon sprayer will in fact cover one acre then your good to go but that seems a little iffy??

Makin' any sense?? /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

[Crimson Arrows]

Re: Alfalfa - Results of using Select Herbicide

It does but I will have to see how fast the water comes out etc and measure that. I have a range finder so, although not exact, about 70 yards sq will equal 1 acre if an acre is 43,000 sq ft?

 

[dbltree]

Re: Alfalfa - Results of using Select Herbicide

Thought I would share some more pics of alfalfa treated with Select grass herbicide. These are from my new spring planted alfalfa seeding.

The problem here is foxtail...so I purposely sprayed some areas and left some.

It's easy to see the dead/dying foxtail compared to the waist high foxtail in the untreated area.

Select is amazingly effective! Thus far I have heard no one say that Select (properly applied with crop oil) didn't work while the opposite has been true of people using Poast Plus also properly applied using crop oil.

This is the dekalb alfalfa and red clover from nannyslayer

Falcata alfalfa and berseem clover as of late July

All of my alfalfa and clover plots are crawling with deer and covered with beds. I also put up a nice covey of quail today while walking thru the oats/alfalfa mix /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Right now is a great time to establish an alfalfa seeding which can be clear seeded at 15-20#'s per acre or you can add oats at roughly 50#'s per acre. Keep in mind however that while the oats won't hurt anything they will be very mature and unattractive to deer by October.

The following is some helpful alfalfa planting information from Welter Seed.

Establishment

Use a soil test measure as a guide to check your pH and nutrient status several months before seeding. Apply lime and fertilizer as needed. Your pH levels should be 6.5-7.0. An ideal soil bed is moist, fertile and firm. Alfalfa prefers crumbly silt loam to sandy loam textures but alfalfa will grow well on most deep, well-drained soils with adequate internal and surface drainage. Alfalfa will die if the soil is saturated for an extended period. Plowing will result in a clean, firm seedbed, but you have to plant when the soil is not too dry or too wet. Plowing may bring rocks to the surface and the field would be more subject to soil erosion. Discing or harrowing requires less time than plowing/tilling, but may not rid the seedbed of weed seeds, diseased plant parts or herbicide residues. No-till seeding can be completed on a wider range of soil conditions and rocks are left below the surface and the field is far less susceptible to soil erosion. You also save time, fuel and power requirements Plant alfalfa 1/4"to 1/2" deep on medium to heavy textured soils and plant at least 1/2" on sandy soils either in the spring or late summer-early fall.

** I would only add the usual "food plotter" advice here...

Till, roll, broadcast seed, roll to cover

Management

For maximum yields, it is important to have 20-30 plants per square foot during the seedling year for protection against weed competition. Do not harvest alfalfa seeded in late summer until the following spring. Allow new seedlings to start to bloom before the first harvest. Cut alfalfa three-four times a year when stand is 25% flowered. FROST DAMAGE INFORMATION: 1. If plants appeared to have died, wait 3-5 days after frost and re-examine plants. 2. At least one set of leaves must have escaped frost damage for the plant to survive. If there are at least 20 plants per square foot, the stand will survive in good shape. If there are 15 or less plants, topseeding alfalfa (if stand was planted the fall prior) is recommended. (if stand is 1+ years old, rotate in another crop to avoid alfalfa autotoxicity.) 3. If less than 30% of stem tops show wilting/browning, do nothing, enough stems remain to provide good growth, first cutting may have yield reduction, but should recover well by the second cutting. 4. If most of the stem tops are damaged and less than 10" tall-do nothing. There will no advantage at this height to mowing. If stand is 12" or taller, mow existing top growth. The growing points may have been killed, but the plant will form new buds at the lower points. The first cutting will be delayed and there will be some yield loss, but recovery should occur. 5. If all stems on a plant are frozen back to the ground, the plant is dead.

I'm real happy with my alfalfa seed from nannyslayer so if your in need of some shoot him a P.M. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif

 

[Crimson Arrows]

Does anybody have an image of alfalfa seedlings after about 2-3 weeks? The field I planted 7/27 is full of "something" but am not sure if it is alfalfa versus normal growth of weeds etc. Seems I've seen these plants before but a guy can hope /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif I'll try to post a pic later but if anybody has new growth alfalfa pics I would apprecite it. Thanks.

 

[dbltree]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: huntyak</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Does anybody have an image of alfalfa seedlings after about 2-3 weeks? The field I planted 7/27 is full of "something" but am not sure if it is alfalfa versus normal growth of weeds etc. Seems I've seen these plants before but a guy can hope /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif I'll try to post a pic later but if anybody has new growth alfalfa pics I would apprecite it. Thanks. </div></div>

This is my spring planting at about 3 weeks

Another closeup pic of alfalfa seedlings

Hope that helps /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

[dbltree]

Just a reminder that thru most of the midwest and northern states we shouldn't cut alfalfa after Sept. 1st. The plant struggles to re-grow versus conserving root reserves making it susceptable to root rot and winter kill.

A late August mowing will still leave nice tender growth for fall hunting seasons. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

My spring seeded alfalfa continues to do well

This is the Falcata "one cut" Siberian Alfalfa...so far so good!

This is the Dekalb brand alfalfa from nannyslayer also lookin' great!

I'll be clipping mine this next week and then leave it for the deer to "clip" this fall... /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

 

[KSQ2]

Dbltree, my father-in-law will be planting the RR alfalfa I mentioned to you a while back, in the next few weeks, I'll let you know how it does. I'm hoping it does well and we can plant it next fall.

 

[dbltree]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KSQ2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dbltree, my father-in-law will be planting the RR alfalfa I mentioned to you a while back, in the next few weeks, I'll let you know how it does. I'm hoping it does well and we can plant it next fall. </div></div>

I assume he has aquired the seed prior to the court injunction ending the sales of RR alfalfa seed or has purchased it under a special permit.

This is from Monsanato's RR alfalfa site:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Product Availability

The Court issued an injunction which prohibits new planting of Roundup Ready
alfalfa seed, except under permit, unless and until APHIS completes an
environmental impact study (“EIS”) and makes a new decision to deregulate the
trait. APHIS expects to complete the EIS in 18-24 months, or mid-late 2009.
There will be no seed sales prior to this APHIS action. Planting under permit will
be limited to support pending research and development needs necessary prior
to any anticipated re-launch.
If APHIS deregulates Roundup Ready alfalfa, there will be seed available for
Roundup Ready alfalfa varieties sold prior to the injunction. </div></div>

RR alfalfa

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Status of Roundup Ready Alfalfa

USDA deregulated Roundup Ready Alfalfa in June 2005, and FGI commercialized the product in August of that year. In late 2006 the Center For Food Safety and others filed a suit against USDA in San Francisco Federal Court claiming deficiencies in the Environmental Assessment process used by USDA/APHIS for deregulating Roundup Ready alfalfa. The judge ruled in favor of the Plaintiffs, specifically finding that the USDA environmental assessment should have included a “hard look” at the potential impact of Roundup Ready alfalfa on the development of glyphosate resistant weeds and on the economic environment, including potential economic impact on organic alfalfa producers. The ruling required USDA/APHIS to conduct an Environmental Impact Statement (EIS) and stopped any new sale or planting of Roundup Ready alfalfa after April 1, 2007 pending the completion of the EIS and a new deregulation decision by the agency.

The judge did not question the food/feed safety of Roundup Ready Alfalfa and allowed the continued harvest of existing Roundup Ready alfalfa hay and seed. USDA/APHIS stewardship requirements for harvest, labeling and movement of Roundup Ready alfalfa hay and seed can be found at http://www.aphis.usda.gov/biotechnology/alfalfa.shtml

During their preparation of the EIS, USDA/APHIS will be soliciting feedback from alfalfa producers. The best opportunity for feedback will be during comment periods. A 30 day public comment period on the Notice of Intent to conduct an EIS was announced January 7, 2007. Please see the Current News tab for details on how to provide comment. Continue to check this page to learn when and how you can provide EIS feedback. Grower feedback is very important in this process. Your comments will make a difference.
</div></div>

More thoughts on RR alfalfa

It's only a matter of time before it comes back on the market so we'll look forward to feedback from anyone who will be planting it soon. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

[KSQ2]

Dbltree, I hadn't heard of the injunction and I'm pretty sure my father-in-law hasn't either. That's too bad, he really needs to plant this fall; I 'magine he'll end up planting a different variety. You've got me curious now, I'll have to give him a call this evening.

 

[dbltree]

This is a pic of a field that huntyak has no-tilled some alfalfa. Little late in the summer but with enough warm weather hopefully it will get established before cold weather.

Very interested to follow this seeding...so keep us posted!

I clipped my spring seeded alfalfa the end of August (September mowing of alfalfa is not reccomended) so it should be just right for a late season draw.

This is some I used Select on earlier....

This is someI did not and was heavily infested with foxtail...big difference!

Hard to beat a new alfalfa seeding for a late fall draw! Tender,sweet and hi protien it will stay green at the base well into winter.

 

[Crimson Arrows]

It was amazing to me how much of a difference select had on my clover. After hitting it in mid August, and I didn't mow it before (brush-hog was sick), these were full grown grasses, it killed them dead! I mowed two weeks later and the clover exploded! I thought it was late as well for the alfalfa but we planted 25#/acre with orchard grass per the farmer renting it out. What purpose does that serve? 6 acres went in, about 150# of alfalfa, #25 of rugged alfalfa, and #25 orchard grass. Lord knows we are getting the rain and it was planted 8 days ago...perfect

 

[dbltree]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> 25#/acre with orchard grass per the farmer renting it out. What purpose does that serve? </div></div>

IMO mixing grass with alfalfa is a bad idea and makes no sense at all. Just "old farmer" habits... /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

Deer don't want that grass and and farmers feeding livestock or selling hay know that grass only lowers the value of the hay.

Why do we kill grass in alfalfa and clover with Select?? Deer don't eat grass or at least not if they have the slightest choice.

In pastures we use a combo of clover and grass partially to prevent bloat problems and because grass can stand intensive grassing better then clover or alfalfa but otherwise grass = waste....

other then that it won't hurt a thing... /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

 

[Sligh1]

I have heard a lot of farmers adding grass to add to their tonnage and reduce costs of the expensive alf-alfa. Might be some other reasons I am not aware of BUT I sure wouldn't put it in IF I had the choice BUT if this is a new planting (and you don't have a choice) you'll still be sitting pretty good, those deer will find PLENTY of the Alf-alfa and it should be full of deer, especially if it's good quality and tender! /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

[Crimson Arrows]

Yeah, wasn't sure either but I really had no choice if he wanted to rent it out and I didn't know the difference in either case. Hopefully 25# per acre of alfalfa will still make it look like an alfalfa field and not a mixture stand. Too late I guess /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

[dbltree]

huntyaks no-till alfalfa is popping up so he wanted to share a pic of "baby" alfalfa seedlings. No-till drills are just darn handy...wish I had one!! /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Keep us posted with progress as this alfalfa was planted a tad late. Hopefully we have a while before cold weather. Mid October would give it 45 days or so if frost holds off. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

[Crimson Arrows]

At what point of growth would you feel comfortable saying it would "make it."

How cold is too cold?

 

[dbltree]

Re: Alfalfa - summer seeding

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: huntyak</div><div class="ubbcode-body">At what point of growth would you feel comfortable saying it would "make it."

How cold is too cold?

</div></div>

I always preferred summer seeding alfalfa and clover for reasons that are now becoming clear in the clover thread. Hardly any messing with weeds etc. that we have in spring seedings but timing is important so I'll share a few key points from this link on summer seeding alfalfa by UWEX: Establishing Alfalfa During Late Summer

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What are the advantages of seeding alfalfa in late summer?

Late summer alfalfa establishment offers several advantages over traditional spring seedings. Weed and insect pests seldom limit stand establishment success. Using a pre-plant incorporated herbicide or a companion crop is not recommended. Companion crops will compete too strongly with the developing alfalfa seedlings for moisture. Also, the first hard freeze will kill any annual weeds that may have germinated. Remember that soil temperatures are much higher in the late summer than they are in the early spring. With adequate moisture, alfalfa seedlings will germinate, grow and develop a crop canopy at a much faster rate.
</div></div>

So plenty of good reason to plant either alfalfa in late summer...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> What are the risks of seeding alfalfa in late summer?

There are also risks associated with late summer alfalfa establishment. The primary concern is the possibility of moisture stress during germination and seedling establishment. Timely seeding will reduce this risk significantly. It’s always advisable to make late summer seeding decisions based upon current soil moisture conditions and short-term weather forecasts. Near normal August and September rainfall should be more than adequate to establish vigorous and productive stands.

Another risk is the threat of an early killing frost and/or severe winter. Again, timely seeding is important to minimize these risks.

</div></div>

So when do we plant and what happens if we plant to late??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What are the recommended seeding and establishment practices for late summer seedings?

Seeding Date

Note that throughout this text reference has been made to seeding date as <span style='font-family: Arial Black'>late summer</span>, NOT FALL!

Although weather and soil conditions vary each year, it is recommended that late summer seedings be made between August 1 and August 15 in Wisconsin. If you are in the northern half of the state, plant alfalfa in the early part of August. If soil moisture and temperature conditions allow, seeding slightly earlier or later than these dates will also result in successful alfalfa establishment.

As a rule of thumb, seed alfalfa 6-8 weeks before the average first killing frost in your area. Seeding too early increases the risk for hot, dry conditions to occur during germination and seedling development. <span style="color: #FF0000">Seeding too late will not give the plants enough time to develop adequate root and top growth before winter. </span>

<span style="color: #3366FF">After September 1, your chances of successfully establishing alfalfa are very low. </span>

Researchers at Purdue University (at a location much farther south than Wisconsin) reported that September 6 and 20 seeding dates in 1984 and 1985 resulted in significant winterkill and/or a high influx of weeds into alfalfa stands the following spring. In northern Pennsylvania, alfalfa yield in the first production year were reduced by 158 lbs/acre for each day seeding was delayed after August 1.
</div></div>

So how do we compare weather wise with Wisconsin??

Southern Iowa is in a warmer zone but...still pushing it planting then end of August.

So...as with all crops,especially this fall with late planted corn and soybeans...a lot of folks will be watching the temps and hoping that that first killing frost comes real late this year.

How cold is to cold??? Those seedlings need time to become established and develop strong root systems before getting burned back by a severely cold night or two.

Our average first frost is October 5th...and that is really pushing the 6 week bare minimum time needed when planting late August...but if we don't get that hard frost until late October....

Things like that are in God's hands now........ /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

[Crimson Arrows]

Re: Alfalfa - summer seeding

Great post Paul! I guess the seeding was out of my hands as the farmer who I rented out to wanted to do it mid to late August. It is what he does for a living so my hands were tied as i had no experience with it. Looking back the rains finally came that last week where if I had planted early it was bone dry all through August. They are up and maybe we are getting TOO much rain but hopefully I'll get a break and it will establish. 6 weeks will be October 8th...fingers are crossed!

 

[dbltree]

Re: Alfalfa - September

I took this pic the other day showing alfalfa that I had sprayed Select grass herbicide on one end.

You can clearly see the line where I stopped spraying...

The Falcata siberian alfalfa has done well so far but I'm looking forward to cold weather and how it does compared to convention alfalfa. No signs of disease or stress due to pests.

The Dekalb alfalfa from nannyslayer is doing well

Fortunately it's coming up thru the foxtail mess I mowed down earlier... /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

The areas I didn't spray with Select certainly don't look as good so it's worth the few bucks an acre to control the foxtail in a new seeding.

Tons of feed right now but that will change over the next few months and I'll get a chance to see reaction to the different alfalfas and how they stack up to other types of food sources such as clover, brassicas, oats and rye. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

[dbltree]

Re: Alfalfa - October

huntyak sent in these pics of his alfalfa seeding now 6 weeks old...

This alfalfa was no-tilled in and it's looking good so far.

Since this seeding was planted a little later then usual we'll keep an eye on it next spring and see how it does. Hopefully we'll have some nice snow cover this winter to keep the "baby" alfalfa from freezing out.

Thanks for the pics and keep us posted........ /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif