Native Warm Season Grass

Discussion in 'Dbltree's corner' started by dbltree, Jan 12, 2006.

  1. Sligh1

    Sligh1 Administrator Staff Member

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    foot high, you're not going to smother anything. You are not mowing this to the ground or even just off the ground. The idea is to take enough off the top to keep the canopy & sunlight open to new seedlings for as long as possible. When the canopy gets clogged up again, time to clip it off again. I usually mow mine around 8" or so depending on growth stage of plants. you probably could take half the growth off the weeds, so 6" if stuff just getting growing. later- If the desired plants are getting a foot tall, I'll raise that up some as they are farther along. If they are just getting started and I have a lot of weeds out of bad luck or bad preparation, I'll mow shorter. you aren't going to smother them and if weeds are super bad, your seedlings are sure struggling now so good time to get them freed up.
     
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  3. antleraddiction

    antleraddiction Member

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    My friend owns a chunk of ground next to a small river a few years back that had a 100 year flood silt in an area that had a some sparse Natives growing into it. Needless to say that when the river flooded and silted in it only left brome and reeds canary grass. Fast forward to this year I told him that we should burn it to see what happens.


    Because the area was 99% cool season grasses it was very difficult to burn on May 5th. There was a little thatch underneath all the green grass, but not enough to keep the fire going so we used a little fuel oil to keep the fire burning :rolleyes::rolleyes:. Not necessarily the best idea but it was our only option.

    [​IMG]

    As you can see there wasn't a complete burn, but we were satisfied with the results.

    [​IMG]




    He sent me a one word message last week, SUCCESS!!

    [​IMG]

    We'll try and tackle the remaining Cool season grasses that hug the river next year. Fire truly is the key to NWSG!!! :):):):)
     
  4. arm

    arm Leg

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    So, do you think the fire killed the brome and RCG or just suppressed it enough to let the NWSG take over?
     
  5. antleraddiction

    antleraddiction Member

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    There's still some cool season grasses here, but they are a heck of a lot harder to find. A Little of both the fuel oil may have done some killing inadvertently.
     
  6. arm

    arm Leg

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    Very cool. I have almost the exact situation except I don't know what was there prior to the cool season grasses. I did spray and area this spring and it is full of broadleaves over my head...which is better than the grasses by far. I should try the burning like the success you mention.
     
  7. medicsnoke

    medicsnoke Member

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    Signed a 10 year contract yesterday for a 21.3 acre CRP planting on my farm. The local NCRS rep picked the following mix.....

    Big Blue 3# per acre
    Indian Grass 2# per acre
    Switch- blackwell 1# per acre
    Wild Rye 2# per acre
    Purple coneflower .2 # per acre
    Gray Headed coneflower .1 # per acre
    Partridge pea 1 # per acre
    Black eyed susan .1 # per acre

    What's the general consensus on this mix? He said I was allowed to make changes due to either personal preference or availability of seed. Thoughts

    Also curious on the rate they are cost sharing the mowing and herbicide application. At a 50% cost share they project i'll have $498 in herbicide application and mowing they are only paying 20$ an acre.....I have no idea on the herbicide but mowing rate seems low to me....thought?
     
  8. Sligh1

    Sligh1 Administrator Staff Member

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    Cost share is what it is. I still look at it is as "thank you! BONUS $" as it's improving my land. With a batwing, I can mow an acre in maybe 4-5 minutes (guessing) so a few mowings a year, reasonable.

    With your mix.... Fine, I can split some hairs in there if you'd like ;)..... I actually can really get complicated if needed like I do on my own ground BUT here's a few BASIC generic thoughts.....
    -I'd probably prefer Kanlow or CIR on some other switch to blackwell but that's me.
    -Indian can take over BUT depends on soil type and also, if it's good quality soil, it likely won't.
    -I plant stuff in sections.... (this is where this can get deep in the weeds in discussion or opinion, I'll avoid MOST).... I do some areas treated with Atrazine and do all switch or do switch & big blue. I do other areas with plateau tolerant mixes, if I want very tall mix- I go Indian and big blue & maybe add Bundleflower & partridge pea.... 12-16 oz of plateau + burn down with round-up liberty and I also burn down in fall.
    - You could look at Plateau tolerant mixes if you're not as much a fan of mowing.
    -I'm a lunatic on having fun with this stuff & experimenting.... for example, this year I added Maximillian sunflower (get very tall), several Asters (very tall). Then, I had my wildflower areas I did some more stuff like brown/black eyed susan, blazing star, lupine, Coneflowers, purple prairie clover, etc, etc.

    SO..... BACK TO BASICS.... What you want, thick nasty deer cover? You will likely have it there. If that's all you care about, I'd probably swap the Blackwell for Kanlow & CIR switchgrass. Switch will stay upright the longest of any of your grasses but all this is good. I love diversity & doing different fields differently BUT you're talking ONE field so I think if goal is THICK - you're pretty close, IMO.
     
  9. medicsnoke

    medicsnoke Member

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    That's a lot of info and it will take some research to digest it all.... thank you. This field will be coming off a 5 year crop rotation with it currently in corn. Do you see any issue with planting in corn stubble and do you feel I still need a fall burn down after they pick in late October? I would think that wouldn't be nessesay but I guess it all depends what it looks like
     
  10. Sligh1

    Sligh1 Administrator Staff Member

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    Quick answer- I would burn it in October and spring and can't hurt. It's one field as well so might as well do it up really nice & I would do both. If it were me... I'd burn down with roundup or Liberty + at least 2,4-d in the fall BUT it if u wanna reply back later on what weeds u see in there- could tweak it right.
    Problems with corn.... U most likely have some foxtail in there and that isn't fun. Drilling in corn stubble has never been an issue for me. I prefer to put natives in Bean stubble that had few or almost no weeds season before but you'll likely be fine. Corn stubble not quite as nice for few orher reasons but be fine.
     
  11. eiowaarcher

    eiowaarcher Member

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    So this year I planted some EW on a farm I just purchased to help me sneak in and out. Just a quick temporary screen. I would like to plant some sort of grass mixture from here on out. I'm planting a 10'-20' wide path along the timber. Would like something 6' high or so. What do you guys recommend for a blend? Also advice on what to do with the EW next year to start this process. Thanks a lot.
     
  12. Sligh1

    Sligh1 Administrator Staff Member

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    Here's what I would do, specifically and there's a dozen other options....
    1) light ur EW on fire be nice if could be done somehow on a dry February day. Right after. Seed or drill kanlow switchgrass, cave in rock & id do big blue stem (won't stay up as long - but way past hunting season and gets the tallest followed by kanlow). (Yes- BB u need either drill or fluffy spreader or do by hand.). I'd spray a few times with round up and atrazine from April to late April (watching soil temps that would germinate BB). Heavy on herbicide. Need clear soil for herbicide to get to and lots of it. Thing to prepare for is foxtail. If u have a lot in there - u could do 20 oz of dual In April with 2 oz of plateau + quart of 2,4-d and all of that would aid the intensity & set back germination of foxtail long enough ur grasses will compete well. By time natives germinate - it will be gone. Heavy atrazine! ;). Ur 1st year is not going to be picture perfect- FYI. U could add an extra 10' & do EW to get u instant cover 1st yr grasses are getting established.
    2) if you wanna mow for a year- same mix & except I'd add some Indian grass & Maximilian sunflowers.
     
  13. IowaBowHunter1983

    IowaBowHunter1983 Super Moderator Staff Member

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    3 year update on a solid brome CRP field I converted to natives. Planted spring 2015 so this is 3rd growing season. Next year barring another drought it should be fantastic.

    04-16-2015- Post burn- starting to green 6.jpg

    IMG_20171201_174822.jpg
     
  14. Sligh1

    Sligh1 Administrator Staff Member

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    Wow!!!
    Drought is irrelevant now. Even on second year growth - those roots are DEEP. Natives year 2 & on are “almost” “drought proof”. Well done!!
    So- when did u kill that brome off & what did u use for herbicides?
    Drill with a fluffy drill or what did u use?
    Looks fantastic!
     
  15. IowaBowHunter1983

    IowaBowHunter1983 Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Can't find my old post on this and pics certainly MIA with Photobucket so will repost some here.

    So the drought certainly isn't a threat to the natives but it sure did affect their "performance" the stuff in the areas that held more moisture are twice as tall. So, hopefully for 2018 moisture isn't an issue and it's all a 6' tall Paradise.

    So my process... NOT ideal because I didn't have an opportunity to fall kill the brome and didn't want to wait another year to get going. But if this shows anything, it's that spring kill CAN be done if you stick with it. More work, not ideal, but possible.

    So burned 4-8-16

    04-08-2015- Burned.jpg

    4-16-15 it's starting to green up

    04-16-2015- Post burn- starting to green 6.jpg

    4-27-15: greening up. Hit with 4-6 quarts/a round up & AMS.

    04-27-2015- Greened up- Sprayed with Glyphosate.jpg

    5-4-17: drill in natives. BB, IG, CIR switch, slender wheat, Virgina wild rye
    05-04-2015- Tractor & Drill.jpg
    05-04-2015- Drilled in NWSG 2.jpg

    5-11-17: sprayed again with same Roundup mix.

    05-11-2015- Sprayed again 2.jpg

    Think I mowed 2-3 times in 2015. In 2016 I mowed 1-2 times and hit with 2,4-D when natives were still dormant (hard on em even though 2,4-D isn't a grass killer)

    Now, it looks pretty darn good. A lot better than 12" tall monoculture brome!!!
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2017
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  16. habitat24

    habitat24 Member

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    Just like the thread on the old QDMA site about frost seeding,I seemed to get faster and better growth by planting in winter.But I won't plant bluestem but only plant switch now.I offers several advantages I feel,you can broadcast or drill in a regular drill,stands better,gets taller.Yours looks like it's coming along good
     
  17. deep woods goat hunter

    deep woods goat hunter PMA Member

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    I sprayed 8 acres of natives yesterday after work with Remedy Ultra, cant wait to see all the destruction of sericia lespedeeza and marestail. :D
     
  18. deep woods goat hunter

    deep woods goat hunter PMA Member

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    Checked on the crops and the native spray application from last night. Dogbane milkweed does not like Remedy Ultra! Amazing how quickly it responds, along with the marestail and Sericia. :D
    spray 2.jpg spray 3.jpg spray 1.jpg
     
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  19. deep woods goat hunter

    deep woods goat hunter PMA Member

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    Native update 7/7 pretty excited about the progress.
    Any advice on how to clean up the foxtail in the native stand?



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  20. Sligh1

    Sligh1 Administrator Staff Member

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    Native stands with foxtail..... quinclorac + methylated seed oil. If it’s a switchgrass or BB stand- could add atrazine. If it’s an Indian or BB combo- could add Imazapic. That last vid: Indian, BB & switch... I’d do just quinclorac + methylated seed oil. Mowing so natives don’t get canopied is another option but with that stand in that video - I wouldn’t do that. Looks really good!!!
     
  21. letemgrow

    letemgrow PMA Member

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    I’d leave the foxtail, it’ll add diversity. I’ve watched whitetails eat it in October. Also, it’s great for upland birds and the prairie grasses will over take it the next couple years anyways....it does not look to be a big threat to the grasses IMO.

    Forbes/annuals mixed in a native grass planting are for the better!
     

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