Cereal Grains and cover crops

[dbltree]

Actually my soybeans will probably be harvested in late October. That was why I had concern about a November food source. Sorry for the confusion. Thanks.

Well the winter rye will still be there of course but short of tilling up a seperate plot there isn't too much else you can do with it.

Brassicas can also be over seeded into standing soys just before leaf drop but they won't have time to get much growth and a combine running over them may be a little hard on them to...

 

[HannibalBowhunter]

Can you overseed/broadcast oats or do they have to be tilled in?

 

[dbltree]

Can you overseed/broadcast oats or do they have to be tilled in?

It is possible but they just don't seem to germinate as easily as winter rye...worth a try ins some situations if soil is bare and heavy rains are forecast. If you give it a try let us know how it works out...

 

[Sligh1]

I put in a bunch of acres of fast maturing soybeans. The bigger plots look AMAZING. They still look like they would choke out ANY weed that dares pop up in them, could be this way for a while (even though I planted them early). I have to broadcast winter rye when they can get some sunlight. Any time frame you feel is TOO LATE to get the annual rye seed in there?

 

[dbltree]

I put in a bunch of acres of fast maturing soybeans. The bigger plots look AMAZING. They still look like they would choke out ANY weed that dares pop up in them, could be this way for a while (even though I planted them early). I have to broadcast winter rye when they can get some sunlight. Any time frame you feel is TOO LATE to get the annual rye seed in there?

We can broadcast all the way up to the first of November an unless we have unually cold weather it will germinate, however it won't get you much growth.

I would wait until the leaves are starting to turn, hopefully around the first of September and then leaves should start dropping about the time the rye needs sunlight.

I have this posted at the beginning of this thread but is shows how cold it can be and still germinate!

A rye cover crop and manure applications are mutually beneficial. Manure nutrients aid in decomposition of the rye, offsetting any potential yield drag, and rye captures and recycles the manure nutrients effectively to the future corn crop, reducing commercial fertilizer needs.

Rye is one of the best scavengers of nitrogen and reduces leaching losses on both sandy soils and tile-drained land. The fast growing, fibrous root system can capture 25 to 100 pounds of soil nitrogen per acre. Seeding rye in late summer or early fall will allow it to scavenge nitrogen. When organic N (from manure or legumes) is still available. Rye can capture this nitrogen and recycle it to the following season. The actual amount of nitrogen that is recycled is highly variable. A presidedress soil nitrate test can help determine the amount of nitrogen credit to take for the upcoming corn crop.

Rye should be allowed to grow over the winter to continue taking up N in the spring.

Rye is the hardiest of cereals and can be seeded later in the fall than other cover crops, and it provides top growth and extensive root growth. It will germinate at cold temperatures—as low as 34 degrees F—and it will resume growing at 38 degrees in the spring. This makes it possible to seed rye after corn, sugar beet or bean harvest until the ground freezes.

It is relatively inexpensive to plant, and the seed is readily available or easily grown.

Easy to establish, rye can be aerial seeded in standing corn/silage and before leaf drop in soybean. Rye can be broadcast alone or with dry fertilizers, can be added to manure tanks for slurry seeding or drilled (which provides the most consistent stands).
It outperforms most other crops on infertile, sandy or acidic soil. It is also tolerant of a variety of soil types and grows well on both poorly and well-drained soils.

Rye can recycle potassium from deeper in the soil profile for future crop use.

Rye is effective at suppressing weeds. It competes with winter annuals and inhibits growth of spring weeds. As rye residue decomposes, it releases allelopathic compounds that are harmful to the growth of weeds.
The rapid fall and spring growth can stabilize sandy soil, trap snow and improve infiltration.

Rye is utilized for many cropping systems, including fruits and vegetables, where it can be left in narrow strips to reduce wind erosion.

Rye, and all cover crops, build soil quality over time by adding organic matter. Long-term benefits include improved soil structure, tilth, water infiltration and water-holding capacity.

 

[dbltree]

Just a reminder from last falls oat tests (in case you missed it) I trialed BFO oats against common Jerry spring oats and found that deer would absoultely NOT touch the BFO!

On the other hand they pounded the Jerry oats that were less then 1/2 the price of the VERY expensive BFO!


These are BFO oats...not a blade touched!

These are Jerry oats planted literally side by side on two different farms!

Almost any oats will give you better far less expensive results then BFO and if you page back thru this thread you can see all the results of my testing and trials.

Winter rye is an even better option because it will stay green all winter but I often mix winter rye and spring oats along with peas.

I would also suggest considering forage peas versus Austrian Winter Peas as they are 1/2 the price but just as attractive. I'm going to plant both side by side to compare but so far they are loving my forage (field) peas!

I usually don't fertilize grains in the fall but if you have poor soil or want to give them a boost, almost any fertilizer blend will do with urea (46-0-0) being the most apt to keep them green and lush...:way:

 

[risto2351]

Well I started my rye, oats, AWP peas, and clover plots this past weekend.
Had a glitch in getting my seed but will get them planted this weekend.

Started here about two months ago and nuked the area twice. The grass was about waist deep to start with.

i

Now it looks like this:

This was a brassicas plot last fall and I frost seeded it this past spring into white clover. First picture was four weeks ago.
Second when I mowed it a couple of weeks ago.

Now it looks like this:

After they get planted it is time to get rid of a few freeloaders.

 

[bowhuntr311]

Risto, Both of those plots are going to be Rye/Oats/AWP mix plots?

 

[risto2351]

You are correct. I will also put in some clover for next spring and plant to brassicas next fall.

 

[dbltree]

Looks like the white clover did great frostseeded into the brassicas!

Sometimes the allelopathic chemicals in the dead brassicas can keep clover from germinating but obviously it didn't phase that clover!

You have a great program with well thought out crop rotations and cover crops that anyone could do well to copy...:way:

 

[risto2351]

Looks like the white clover did great frostseeded into the brassicas!

Sometimes the allelopathic chemicals in the dead brassicas can keep clover from germinating but obviously it didn't phase that clover!

You have a great program with well thought out crop rotations and cover crops that anyone could do well to copy...:way:

Paul,
A lot of people think I am crazy for cutting down all that green clover.

As far as the allelopathis chemicals I see that more in my rye not letting some of my brassicas grow if that is possible.

A big thanks to you Paul. None of this could of been grown or thought out without your help. :way:

 

[dbltree]

A lot of people think I am crazy for cutting down all that green clover.

Well...$25 worth of clover seed to = $60-80 worth of nitrogen seems like a no brainer to me...

I posted this in the brassica thread but some of you may have intensive grazing or feel that your cereal grains need a boost after planting so I wanted to post some options here as well.

Generally I prefer to fertilize brassicas heavily and frost seed or spring plant a plow down clover and then fall plant cereal grains. The N levels should be high enough (from the plowing down the clover) and P&K levels brought up to snuff when the brassics were planted, so that the grains would generally not need any additional fertilizer.

For those not yet on a crop rotation of legumes, brassicas and cereal grains then you may need to fertilize your cereal grains at planting and if grazing is heavy, top dress some additonal N after the winter rye is 2-3 weeks old.

This information wil help you better understand your options and the problems that go along with trying to top dress nitrogen versus tillig it in. Remember also that rye is a nitrogen scavenger and can pull postassium fro deep in the soil and recyle both for use by the next crop...man you can't beat that with a stick! :way:

The following is taken from this link

The Fertilizer Institute

Urea (46-0-0) — A solid nitrogen product typically applied in granular form. It can be combined with ammonium nitrate and dissolved in water to make liquid nitrogen fertilizer known as urea ammonium nitrate or UAN solution.

Ammonium nitrate (34-0-0) — Another solid nitrogen product typically applied in granular form is valued for its use on pasture lands and specialty crops such as citrus.

Ammonium sulfate (21-0-0) — A solid product that is largely a byproduct of coke ovens, where sulfuric acid is used to remove ammonia evolved from the coal.

All forms of N can cause some minor leaf burning and this will be worse if applied when leaves ar wet, so wait till dew has dried before applying.

Top dress nitrogen onto fall cereal grains 2-4 weeks after emergence but be aware that doing so may cause rye, wheat or oats to grow rapidly, become stemmy and unpalatable making it counterproductive.

Determining your needs sometimes requires some trial and error and deciding if the time and money to add more fertilizer is worth the effort or perhaps and absoulte must.

Urea (46-0-0) is the most commonly available but it is inportant to apply it ahead of a minimum of a 1/2" rain

This link will explain more about using urea

Fertilizer Urea

Urea Losses to the Air

Urea breakdown begins as soon as it is applied to the soil. If the soil is totally dry, no reaction happens. But with the enzyme urease, plus any small amount of soil moisture, urea normally hydrolizes and converts to ammonium and carbon dioxide.

This can occur in 2 to 4 days and happens quicker on high pH soils. Unless it rains, urea must be incorporated during this time to avoid ammonia loss. Losses might be quite low in the spring if the soil temperature is cold.

Urea fertilizer can be coated with certain materials, such as sulfur, to reduce the rate at which the nitrogen becomes available to plants. Under certain conditions these slow-release materials result in more efficient use by growing plants. Urea in a slow-release form is popular for use on golf courses, parks, and other special lawn situations.

If you can find urea treated with urease inhibitor then rain fall will ne of less importance and Agrotain makes such a product:

Where Agrotain fits

Agrotain International is the world’s largest producer of StabilizedNitrogen™ fertilizers.

Agrotain is both a company name and a product name. Agrotain International makes three ag products that protect urea fertilizer from loss.

Agrotain is a liquid urease inhibitor that can be impregnated onto dry urea or tank mixed with liquid fertilizer that contains urea such as urea-ammonium nitrate (UAN). The active ingredient is N-(n-butyl) thiophosphoric triamide (NBPT).

Agrotain Plus is a dry concentrate nitrogen stabilizer. It contains the urease inhibitor NBPT and dicyandiamide, a nitrogen stabilizer. When added to UAN, it minimizes volatilization, denitrification, and leaching of nitrogen for the urea portion of UAN.

Ammonium nitrate (34-0-0)

AN is a much more stable form of nitrogen in regards to volatilization losses, however it is difficult to purchase because of it's use in making bombs and liability issues for fertilizer dealers. If it is available it is an excellent albeit more expensive source of N for top dressing.

Nitrogen Sources

Another popular form of dry nitrogen fertilizer is ammonium-nitrate (NH4-NO3). Ammonium-nitrate is 34% nitrogen, by weight. It is produced by reacting anhydrous ammonia (NH3) with nitric acid (HNO3). When dissolved in water, the ammonium (NH4+) and nitrate (NO3_) fractions disassociate. The nitrate fraction remains dissolved in the soil water.

The ammonium fraction becomes bound to negatively charged soil particles. Both the ammonium and nitrate fractions are available for direct plant uptake and neither form is subject to appreciable volatilization losses. The volatilization losses from surface applied ammonium nitrate are therefore usually quite small, especially compared to urea-based fertilizers.

There are safer versions of AN being developed so perhaps it will once again be more readily available.

Honeywell Develops Safer Ammonium Nitrate-Based Fertilizer

Ammonium sulfate (21-0-0)

Advantages = Minimal leaching loss, easy to use, safe to handle and sulfur boost if needed.

Disadvantages = Delayed availability during nitrification and has a high loss potential on calcareous soils if it is not incorporated into the soil.

Ammonium sulfate is often one of the most expensive forms of N but when compared to the risk of applying urea and ending up with no rain, it's worth the cost!

Some FAQ's about AS

Ammonium Sulfate & Soil pH: Fact Vs. Fiction

NITROGEN FERTILIZER: What Should I Use

Purchasing Nutrients for Hay and Forage Crops

Compare N sources

Fertilizer and Lime materials

I really urge everyone to consider a crop rotation that includes legumes that can replace all or at least a large portion of your N needs, lowering your costs and time spent adding it.

 

[HannibalBowhunter]

I am getting ready to try my first rye plot by overseeding some soybeans here in a week or two. I am really excited and am trying to plan time afield. My question is: I have an over-the-shoulder hand spreader that holds about 20lbs. Ballpark - How long is it going to take me to spread 5oo lbs. of rye seed? Thanks in advance.

 

[dbltree]

It's going to take you a few minutes but I have done up to 7 acres that way! Afterwords I realized the shoulder strap had cut into the top of mu shoulder and it took weeks to heal.

You might consider a little extra shoulder padding to do that much. Great exercise and it's not a bad way to spend some time afield on a cool fall day :way:

 

[corygnc]

Dbltree,

Been following all your recommendations for brassica's and grains. I will post pics of brassica's this next week. They look awesome. Thanks Very Much!

I finished my rye, wheat, oats and AWP's mix and clover this past Monday. I have some extra rye seed. What if I broadcasted the seed with my 4 wheeler spreader around the 15th (try to time a rain)?

Was thinking I might have different growths of rye. Some younger and some more mature to give deer a variety.

Dumb or good idea?

Again, thanks very much for everything!

Cory

 

[HannibalBowhunter]

I am overseeding my soybeans with rye in mid-September. Would it be better to broadcast clover at the same time or wait and frost seed in Spring? I don't want to throw away seed and was wondering if mid-September will give the clover enough time to establish itself versus dealing with the allelopathic nature of the rye in Spring against me. Thanks again.

 

[dbltree]

What if I broadcasted the seed with my 4 wheeler spreader around the 15th (try to time a rain)?

I think that's a great idea! let us know how it does but planting some later can certainly make for attractive forage.

I am overseeding my soybeans with rye in mid-September. Would it be better to broadcast clover at the same time or wait and frost seed in Spring? I don't want to throw away seed and was wondering if mid-September will give the clover enough time to establish itself versus dealing with the allelopathic nature of the rye in Spring against me. Thanks again.

I have never had a problem frost seeding into rye but starting some now could work if we get rains. You might give it a try but if we get earlly cold weather then you might have to add some more via frost seeding.

 

[dbltree]

I know some folks still have a hard time with the concept of tilling down perfectly good clover solely for the purpose of using it as "green manure" to add organic matter and nitrogen to the soil, but that's exactly what we need to do. Adding white or red clover right now to your fall cereal grain planting is like depositing money in the bank and next summer you'll reap the rewards.

Clover seed should only run $20-30 an acre yet is capable of producing 3-4 times that in nitrogen that is completely natural and requires not a stitch of fossil fuels to make.

The other day I turned under some beautiful Alice White clover planted almost exactly a year ago with my winter rye, oats and peas. Part of the plot was in red and the other in white clover only because I had some left over seed to use up.

I had no-tilled soybeans into the plot this spring but deer never let them get over a few inches high and after several applications of glyphosate that never phased the clovers, I left it alone. Foxtail exploded in the areas without clover and I just disced it all under.

After discing it up good I went over it with my tiller as well but plowing to turn it under is also a good option. When using smaller equipment, mowing just prior to tilling will make the process easier.

The chopped up clover plants can add up to 2 tons of organic matter to the soil

and the roots and plant parts will release nitrogen slowly as the plant decomposes, somewhere between 130-200 units of N will over time become available to the next crops.

Regardless if you have light sandy soils or heavy clay soils, the addition of the clover plants to the soil will significantly improve soil quality and more so each time it's tilled under.

My tiller tends to drag some plant material back to the surface but this causes no harm and serves as a surface mulch to hold soil and moisture

I find fall planted clovers to be the easiest to till under and they will provide the most nitrogen compared to spring planted clover plowdowns. Still spring planted berseem clover and oats will also make a significant difference

I leave the oats and berseem until just before my fall planting, then I mowed these a week before hand although plowing them under would be best.

Heavy rains germinated the oats that had been shattered all over the ground and I then tilled under the lush green carpet that added even more organic matter to the soil.

In some cases I use buckwheat, usually where it will be followed by clover or alfalfa and additional nitrogen is not required

Many plotters have adapted to the idea that clover is expensive and should only be thought of as a food plot in itself but nothing could be further from the truth.

Clover seed is readily available for $2-5 a pound depending on if red or white and when planted in the fall will indeed provide a lush source of high protein spring and summer feed for deer for less then 30 bucks an acre.

Clover Seed Source

That same clover when planted in conjunction with winter rye in the fall will then help suffocate weeds further held back by the allelopathic chemicals in the rye.

Winter rye and clover then go together like hand in glove and used over time in a crop rotation with brassicas (or corn, milo or other high nitrogen using crops) will significantly lower both herbicide and fertilizer requirements, build soil quality and provide a combination of high quality, high protein feed that will hold whitetails on your property...

 

[letemgrow]

Great stuff Paul!! Keep up the good work!!

 

[dbltree]

I planted 3 different types of peas to compare for fall forage with winter cereals. Austrian Winter Peas are twice as much as forage/field peas and I believe deer will "devour" them all equally...but we'll find out.

4010 field peas

LC 6040 forage peas (from nannyslayer)

Austrian Winter Peas

I took the time to sow each by istelf before sowing the mixed grains (winter rye, triticale and oats)

I sowed mostly winter rye and oats but did plant one bag of winter triticale (cross between wheat and rye) for comparison

Winter rye

Winter Tricticale

I normally avoid using expensive fertilizers on fall grains because they don't need it and it often causes them to grow too fast, making them unpalatable and stemmy by hunting season.

If one is going to add urea then plant the cereals in mid to late September so the lush growth will be attractive in October and cool weather will slow it's growth before it gets too tall.

Often some advocate using nitrogen to "sweeten" crops but in reality the same deer are going to feed there, sweet or otherwise. Adding nitrogen is unlikely to draw deer from parts unknown or encourage the "buck of a lifetime" to feed there.

There are too many other components in a good habitat program that influence deer such as safe cover and bedding areas close to attractive food sources.

Nitrogen can be useful in some situations so this fall seems like a good time to test various rates and results of both tilled in urea and top dressing it later in the fall.

I spread 200#'s, 100#'s and zero of 46-0-0 urea on one field so we can see what if any advantages or disadvantages result.

We'll see what this field looks like as fall progresses and how deer utilize the different food sources and what if any difference results from using nitrogen.