Cereal Grains and cover crops

SoDakarcher · Dec 23, 2013

Paul,
I am looking at buying the new 706NT GPD. I do not typically seed natives and will only use the small seed and large seed box. Mostly using it for food plots ( your plans )They do have a fertilizer box option to replace the native box. This would allow me to no till and still place non-liquid fertilizer. What are your thoughts. If I need to plant natives I can purchase the de-burred seed that will flow through the large seed box. I'm not sure just how good these units will put down the fertilizer. Thanks again for all your help through the years. God bless!

dbltree · Dec 23, 2013

SoDakarcher said:
Paul,
I am looking at buying the new 706NT GPD. I do not typically seed natives and will only use the small seed and large seed box. Mostly using it for food plots ( your plans )They do have a fertilizer box option to replace the native box. This would allow me to no till and still place non-liquid fertilizer. What are your thoughts. If I need to plant natives I can purchase the de-burred seed that will flow through the large seed box. I'm not sure just how good these units will put down the fertilizer. Thanks again for all your help through the years. God bless!

That's a good drill, haven't used the fertilizer option but it should work well. Fertilizer is very corrosive so make sure you wash it out thoroughly, immediately after use.

Let us know how it works next summer.

SoDakarcher · Dec 23, 2013

Paul,
I know you and your son are drilling most of your fields now. Are you putting down liquid fertilizer on those fields or are you incorporating prior to drilling? Thanks.

dbltree · Dec 23, 2013

SoDakarcher said:
Paul,
I know you and your son are drilling most of your fields now. Are you putting down liquid fertilizer on those fields or are you incorporating prior to drilling? Thanks.

We buy bulk, spread and till in but the drill should cover, there is a limit to how much you can apply in the row however. Too much can burn young plants, best to apply P&K late winter/early spring via broadcast.

If you have good clover crops to burn down prior to no-tilling then less urea would need to be applied. How well the drill would cover I can't say?

turkeyriver · Dec 23, 2013

You won't go wrong with a GP drill. I'm not familiar with the fertilizer box option, but if it's a metal box it will rust eventually. You might save the money on that option and purchase a good 3-point spreader for fertilizer. Assuming your drill is 7 in spacing, the disk openers will incorporate fertilizer to some degree. If you are going to be 100% no-till, you really don't need to incorporate that much. Earthworms and rain action on mellow, no-tilled soil will do the job.

SoDakarcher · Dec 24, 2013

Thanks for the advice. The fertilizer box is about 5k. I think I will just continue to broadcast and till my fertilizers early and then drill. Can't wait until spring. Merry Christmas to all!

Trapper Knox · Dec 24, 2013

We used to broadcast with our Polaris Ranger, but as we gained more clients we encountered more problems in broadcasting with the Ranger. The corrosive action really took a toll on my ranger and broadcaster. I would HATE to see what would happen to that new drill. I thought the same thing, save a lot of time, but in reality. . . eek! But good luck with your no-till plots! We're going to that this year, should make the plots more productive

SoDakarcher · Dec 27, 2013

Trapper, I know you have posted your GP settings for the cereal mix. Are you able to post your settings for the brassica mix, and the settings you have used for the spring brassica follow-up mix. I know my settings may vary slightly but you have no doubt created the wheel already. Thanks, and God bless you and your family!

dbltree · Dec 27, 2013

SoDakarcher said:
Trapper, I know you have posted your GP settings for the cereal mix. Are you able to post your settings for the brassica mix, and the settings you have used for the spring brassica follow-up mix. I know my settings may vary slightly but you have no doubt created the wheel already. Thanks, and God bless you and your family!

Jess is doing TSI this a.m. but these are settings he used

45/50 small seed setting = 10#’s brassica seed

50# oats setting 60 drive 2/20# berseem/crimson setting 85

SoDakarcher · Dec 27, 2013

Thank you again!!

dbltree · Dec 30, 2013

December 30th, 2013

Another look at forage rye on left Elbon rye on right in late December

The oats are gone now having served their purpose by providing lush palatable feed quickly while the slower growing cereal rye was getting started. Now the rye shines and as the most winter hardy cereal grain on the planet is oblivious to recent temps to -12 degrees.

The cold hardy winter peas are equally unphased and extremely attractive to deer

Hairy vetch will provide enough nitrogen for the brassicas to follow this coming July

Pretty is as pretty does however and nuthin's worth a hoot if deer don't eat it...

but eat it they do...

and the cereal grain mix...

and brassicas...

will keep them fed all winter

This one was probably more interested in one last hot doe

but late season they come for one reason...food

Last night this giant was taken at 25 yards feeding on rye Jesse planted this fall, attracted to the year around food sources, something high profile neighbors do not offer.

We are blessed to be able to partnership with landowners who share our passion for habitat and whitetails, building outstanding habitat requires an investment in time, money and sound management. Invest in sound habitat and whitetail principles and one day, you to will reap the rewards... :way:

dbltree · Jan 2, 2014

Happy New Year Paul!

In the spring of 2013 I started my first ever food plot and followed your instructions. Had the soil tested, added the lime and fertilizer as called for, etc. And, what do you know, everything grew! My food plot is on an old logging road, roughly 35’ wide by 450 yards long, surrounded by forest and a very wooded housing development. There’s not another field within 2 miles.

The good news is the deer hammered my plot, the bad news is the clover and brassicas were nearly all eaten before archery season opened, October 5, here in Pennsylvania. The deer waited a couple of weeks before they started eating the cereal grain mix but it was gone by Thanksgiving!

I put up several wire cages and it’s amazing to see the growth in the cages compared to outside. Early in the season my grandkids and I passed up some young does and small bucks. Before the big guys showed up the food plot was devoured! Any suggestions?

Jerry

This is an example of why we share variable seeding/fertilizer rates, very limited area, lots of cover=decimated food. Tough to conquer but more clover, high seeding rates and higher fertilizer rates can maximize yields. 200 lbs urea at planting and topdressing more in late Sept./early Oct. will accelerate growth, and as soils improve yields will follow suit.

Each property is unique and there is no one size fits all, so be prepared to adjust rates up or down as needed...

Plant ALL in one plot in strips or blocks

Alice, Kopu II, Durana (or comparable) white clover 10% of plot, sow at 6#'s per acre with the rye combination in the fall or in the spring with oats and berseem clover. Correct Ph and P&K with soil tests

Brassicas in 45% of plot

Purple Top Turnips 3#
Dwarf Essex Rape 2#
GroundHog Forage radish 5#

Plant in mid to late July in most Midwest states, or 60-90 days before your first killing frost, Use 200#'s of 46-0-0 urea and 400#'s of 6-28-28 per acre. Follow the dead brassicas with oats and berseem or crimson clover in mid spring at 60#'s oats and 12-15#'s berseem clover and/or crimson and/or 50#'s of chickling vetch)

Cereal Grain combo in 45% of plot...we use 50# each rye, oats and peas along with radish and clover seed all planted in half of each feeding area

Winter rye 50-80#'s per acre (56#'s = a bushel)
Spring oats 50-120#'s per acre (32#'s = a bushel)
Frostmaster Winter Peas or 4010/6040 Forage peas 20-80#'s per acre

Red Clover 8-12#'s per acre or white clover at 6#'s per acre (or 20-40 pounds hairy vetch and 20-30#'s crimson clover on sandy soils)
Groundhog Forage Radish 5#'s per acre

Plant in late August to early September, if following well fertilized brassicas use 100 - 200#'s of urea, if starting a new plot add 400#'s of 6-28-28 but for best results soil test and add only what is necessary.

Rotate the brassicas and rye combo each year

Jbohn · Jan 5, 2014

Sure makes me feel good I got my grain plots, plenty of food during this harsh weather so deer have plenty of food. I am sure by this time corn and bean plots are exhausted.

dbltree · Jan 10, 2014

Hairy Vetch

Hairy vetch is easy to add to the fall rye mix along with red clover and with a good healthy crop can provide all the nitrogen needs for the brassica crop to follow. That leaves one less chore and eliminates the need for tillage, simply to incorporate urea, which is expensive and sometimes hard to find.

From this link Hairy Vetch

Nitrogen source. Hairy vetch delivers heavy contributions of mineralized N (readily available to the following cash crop). It can provide sufficient N for many vegetable crops, partially replace N fertilizer for corn or cotton and increase cash crop N efficiency for higher yield.

In some parts of California and the East in Zone 6, hairy vetch provides its maximum N by safe corn planting dates. In Zone 7 . Spring soil moisture was higher under the vetch or a vetch-rye mixture than under cereal rye or no cover crop. Killed vetch left on the surface conserved summer moisture for improved corn production .

Even without crediting its soil-improving benefits, hairy vetch increases N response and produces enough N to pay its way in many systems. Hairy vetch without fertilizer was the preferred option for “risk-averse” no-till corn farmers in Georgia, according to calculations comparing costs, production and markets during the study. The economic risk comparison included crimson clover, wheat and winter fallow. Profit was higher, but less predictable, if 50 pounds of N were added to the vetch system

Soil conditioner. Hairy vetch can improve root zone water recharge over winter by reducing runoff and allowing more water to penetrate the soil profile through macropores created by the crop residue

Rye/hairy vetch mixtures mingle and moderate the effects of each crop. The result is a “hybrid” cover crop that takes up and holds excess soil nitrate, fixes N, stops erosion, smothers weeds in spring and on into summer if not incorporated, contributes a moderate amount of N over a longer period than vetch alone, and offsets the N limiting effects of rye .

Seed vetch/rye mixtures, at 15-25 lb. hairy vetch with 40-70 lb. rye/A
[ /b]

We just add 15# HV seed to our cereal grain mix along with 8# of red clover

Hairy vetch and rye

Hairy vetch seed source

You can also plant hairy vetch with oats and crimson clover, it'll grow well on most soil types and save you money on fertilizer costs along with the hassle of handling it...

Plant ALL in one plot in strips or blocks

Alice, Kopu II, Durana (or comparable) white clover 10% of plot, sow at 6#'s per acre with the rye combination in the fall or in the spring with oats and berseem clover. Correct Ph and P&K with soil tests

Brassicas in 45% of plot

Purple Top Turnips 3#
Dwarf Essex Rape 2#
GroundHog Forage radish 5#

Plant in mid to late July in most Midwest states, or 60-90 days before your first killing frost, Use 200#'s of 46-0-0 urea and 400#'s of 6-28-28 per acre. Follow the dead brassicas with oats and berseem or crimson clover in mid spring at 60#'s oats and 12-15#'s berseem clover and/or crimson and/or 50#'s of chickling vetch)

Cereal Grain combo in 45% of plot...we use 50# each rye, oats and peas along with radish and clover seed all planted in half of each feeding area

Winter rye 50-80#'s per acre (56#'s = a bushel)
Spring oats 50-120#'s per acre (32#'s = a bushel)
Frostmaster Winter Peas or 4010/6040 Forage peas 20-80#'s per acre

Red Clover 8-12#'s per acre or white clover at 6#'s per acre (or 20-40 pounds hairy vetch and 20-30#'s crimson clover on sandy soils)
Groundhog Forage Radish 5#'s per acre

Plant in late August to early September, if following well fertilized brassicas use 100 - 200#'s of urea, if starting a new plot add 400#'s of 6-28-28 but for best results soil test and add only what is necessary.

Rotate the brassicas and rye combo each year

Click to expand...

Sligh1 · Jan 10, 2014

Is hairy vetch attractive to deer? & sorry if I missed these questions being answered. Also, I think I missed it as well - is there an estimate of how many lbs of N the vetch generally puts down. Like my beans if producing 40 bushels, some old rule of thumb may be they put down 40 lbs of N per acre. Do you feel completely satisfied letting the vetch, peas, clover, etc provide ALL the NITROGEN needs?

dbltree · Jan 11, 2014

Sligh1 said:
Is hairy vetch attractive to deer? & sorry if I missed these questions being answered. Also, I think I missed it as well - is there an estimate of how many lbs of N the vetch generally puts down. Like my beans if producing 40 bushels, some old rule of thumb may be they put down 40 lbs of N per acre. Do you feel completely satisfied letting the vetch, peas, clover, etc provide ALL the NITROGEN needs?

It's not favored by deer but they will eat it, that's why we mix red clover. Hairy vetch can provide 120-200# nitrogen, red clover 60-130#, we apply 200# urea (96 actual N) so a healthy crop of legumes can supply 100% of brassicas N needs...perfect for no-tilling!

6x6 · Jan 11, 2014

I have some large areas of hairy vetch on my farm that became established on their own. Do you kill it first before discing or tilling?

dbltree · Jan 11, 2014

6x6 said:
I have some large areas of hairy vetch on my farm that became established on their own. Do you kill it first before discing or tilling?

Not unless you no-till plant, if allowed to go to seed it will come back but the plant itself is easily killed via tillage.

DannyBoy · Jan 11, 2014

Joe, could it be crown vetch rather than hairy vetch?? I see crown vetch establish itself often but rarely hairy vetch. Crown vetch was introduced by the dot i believe to hold soil in steep ditches and it can grow about anywhere and get pretty aggressive. I encourage landowners to be proactive in getting rid of it!!

dbltree · Jan 11, 2014

DannyBoy said:
Joe, could it be crown vetch rather than hairy vetch?? I see crown vetch establish itself often but rarely hairy vetch. Crown vetch was introduced by the dot i believe to hold soil in steep ditches and it can grow about anywhere and get pretty aggressive. I encourage landowners to be proactive in getting rid of it!!

I agree! Rare to see HV spread but CV does

Cereal Grains and cover crops

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