Cereal Grains and cover crops

[dbltree]

Every now and then someone finds that the amount of seed we recommend per acre seems outrageous..."you put 150#'s of seed per acre??? Really??!"

an my answer is...yes, really...

Most people without farming background/experience are just not aware of normal seeding rates so here is a little information from an article in No-Till Farmer to help you understand what "normal" really is....

Cover Crops after Corn Silage

A lag of two weeks can make a huge difference in cover crop growth in our Pennsylvania climate. Since 2010 we have tried and demonstrated many different cover crops after corn silage on Pennsylvania dairy farms.

Here are some of the solos or mixtures we've tried:

Cereal rye. This is really our true and tried crop that is virtually fireproof. It can be established in all of Pennsylvania after corn silage harvest, even into late October, and still successfully survive the winter. It can produce very good silage in the spring as long as it is harvested at the right time, which can be challenging if the weather doesn't collaborate. If harvested after soft dough stage, the feed quality declines rapidly. Seeding rate should be approximately 112 lbs/A (2 bu/A). Aroostock proved a very winter hardy and high-biomass variety, while Huron was a variety that produced less biomass but with a wider window for high-quality harvesting in the spring.

Rye and oat mix (84 lbs or 1.5 bu/A rye and 70 lbs or 2.5 bu/A oats). This mix proved to be a high fall and spring biomass producer. In the southern parts of our state a lower rate of rye might be combined with a higher rate of oats for high quality and tonnage forage production in the fall. For high production it is important to plant this mix immediately after August silage harvest. The rye guarantees living cover in the spring.

We plant 50 winter rye, 50 oats and 50 peas for a total of 150#'s large seeds which is exactly what the oat/rye cover above is planted and keep in mind, deer will keep peas grazed to the dirt in all but rare cases.

I don't just make up this stuff, but rather combine my own farming experience with knowledge of whitetails and put together practical, low cost feeding solutions that feed whitetails year around and build soils at the same time. Keep in mind the peas are "candy" that whitetails find irresistible, but...rates can be cut or eliminated all together if budget does not allow.

Soybeans can be used but unlike winter peas, they will freeze and die at first killing frost making them impractical for most northern states.

Forage radish are like peas, they add another "tasty" element to the mix but can be eliminated if budget is a problem, red clover however is essential to providing food until tilled under for brassicas. We also use this mix to establish white clover in the fall, thereby avoiding wet weather and weed problems that come with spring seedings.

Seeding rates can be tweaked up or down depending on deer density or grazing pressure but 150#'s is a good place to start...

 

[dbltree]

Why not commercial seed mixtures??

The following question was asked of me, one that I have often answered over the years but always worthy of touching on again...

Your seeding recommendations are so much higher than the store bought big buck bags, why??
Meaning you recommend 50 lbs per acre each of rye, oats and peas vs a store bought bag might only be a total blend of 25lbs

There are a myriad of answers to this question but first let's look at the seed mix in question...

8.5 lb bag covers 1/3 acre x 3 = 1 ac
Wheat 25% 2.125# 6.375#
Peas 25% 2.125# 6.375#
Rye grain 25% 2.125# 6.375#
Rape 5% .425# 1.275#
Brassica 5% .425# 1.275#
Turnip 5% .425# 1.275#
Vetch 5% .425# 1.275#
Radish 5% .425# 1.275#
Cereals 19.125# per acre
Brassicas 6.375 # per acre

Before I begin...my son and I have a habitat business, we do not now or ever sell seed of any kind and purchase it all locally from Iowa-Missouri Hybrids. Where you purchase your seeds is not our concern, helping you build the best whitetail habitat...is.

We have then a few goals, some discussed in the previous few posts...to provide year around food sources, on the least amount of acres which requires doing our best to get the highest yields on limited acres. To do this we need to consider the following:

1) Planting date - brassicas require roughly 90 days growing time before killing frost but cereal grains require scarcely 30 days

You don't see farmers planting corn in July or beans in August...if they did the crops would grow but they would have virtually no yield!! Most landowners lack farming experience and have no concept of either planting dates or seeding rates, which is completely understandable and part my reason for being here, to help educate and teach those with a hunger to learn and a passion for better habitat.

In the above seed mix the brassicas and cereal grains have incompatible planting dates!

2) Planting compatible crop types

You don't see farmers mixing wheat and corn or soybeans and alfalfa...right? Why not??
Because those crops would compete with one another and yields would be significantly reduced which is contrary to what our goals are...to grow more food on less acres, thereby allowing us to plant COVER (the single most limiting factor for any landowner), unused acres can then be converted to switchgrass or shrub/conifer plantings for instance.

In the above seed mix, the cereals are in direct competition with the brassicas for water and nutrients... a little like throwing grass seed into your brassicas!!

3) Crop rotation

By now most of you are aware of the need to rotate crop types to prevent disease and pest problems but planting all the crops together makes this virtually impossible

Can you throw a bunch of seeds together and get something to grow? Yes
Can you plant at the wrong and get something to grow? Yes
If you plant a bunch of "stuff" will deer eat it? Yes

In a nutshell...if you wish to plant at the wrong time, the wrong seeds and lower your yield to a fraction of yours soils potential....then a mix like this is probably right for you. If however you desire to build the best habitat possible I would urge you to make up your seed mixes...plant whatever kinds of brassicas you wish and make up your own cereal mix but...plant them separately and at the correct time for your area and weather conditions.

If the above mix included ONLY brassicas...it would be fine and would resemble what we plant

Purple Top Turnips 3#
Dwarf Essex Rape 2#
GroundHog Forage radish 5#

The cereal portion however is not remotely enough to do anything but compete like a weed, with the brassicas. In our mix, seeding rates reflect the normal planting rates acceptable for average soils. The red clover does not compete with anything in the fall and takes off in the spring to continue feeding deer into summer. Forage radish are added at a very, very small rate...roughly 3% of entire seed mix and unlike rape and turnips, their extremely palatable leaves are ready in 30-40 days and in our area deer will eat them to the dirt leaving nothing to compete and no disease problems for next years rotation.

Winter rye 50 per acre (56#'s = a bushel)
Spring oats 50#'s per acre (32#'s = a bushel)
Frostmaster Winter Peas 50#'s per acre

Red Clover 8-12#'s per acre
Groundhog Forage Radish 5#'s per acre

I do not know the price of the noted seed mix but the cost for advertising and "pretty bags" is high and you, the consumer foot the bill. Use what seems right for you and what you plant is neither myself nor anyone elses concern. It's not a matter of right or wrong but merely understanding the possibles and then making the choice that's right for you...

Video showing high number of earthworms where winter rye was planted.

Earthworm channels in no-till corn that had Winter Cereal Rye as a cover crop

Plant ALL in one plot in strips or blocks

Alice, Kopu II, Durana (or comparable) white clover 10% of plot, sow at 6#'s per acre with the rye combination in the fall or in the spring with oats and berseem clover. Correct Ph and P&K with soil tests

Brassicas in 45% of plot

Purple Top Turnips 3#
Dwarf Essex Rape 2#
GroundHog Forage radish 5#

Plant in mid to late July in most Midwest states, or 60-90 days before your first killing frost, Use 200#'s of 46-0-0 urea and 400#'s of 6-28-28 per acre. Follow the dead brassicas with oats and berseem or crimson clover in mid spring at 60#'s oats and 12-15#'s berseem clover and/or crimson and/or 50#'s of chickling vetch)

Cereal Grain combo in 45% of plot...we use 50# each rye, oats and peas along with radish and clover seed all planted in half of each feeding area

Winter rye 50-80#'s per acre (56#'s = a bushel)
Spring oats 50-120#'s per acre (32#'s = a bushel)
Frostmaster Winter Peas or 4010/6040 Forage peas 20-80#'s per acre

Red Clover 8-12#'s per acre or white clover at 6#'s per acre (or 20-40 pounds hairy vetch and 20-30#'s crimson clover on sandy soils)
Groundhog Forage Radish 5#'s per acre

Plant in late August to early September, if following well fertilized brassicas use 100 - 200#'s of urea, if starting a new plot add 400#'s of 6-28-28 but for best results soil test and add only what is necessary.

Rotate the brassicas and rye combo each year

 

[medicsnoke]

I sprayed 4 plot areas today with Buccaneer. One of the spots is any alley way around the perimeter crop field that will connect two of my Brassica plots. I had to do some chainsaw work first but am excited to get this "death row" going. I'm going to buy seed Monday or Tuesday and plant next week hopefully.
After dropping the trees.

 

[dbltree]

I like it! :way:

 

[wisguy]

Has anyone noticed or compared the difference between Austrian Winter peas and generic field peas ?

 

[dbltree]

Has anyone noticed or compared the difference between Austrian Winter peas and generic field peas ?

I've tried both and deer eat both to the dirt but AWP are a little more winter hardy...moot point if eaten be December but may be important in some situations with low deer densities.

 

[DUG]

GP Drill settings

I know we talked about this some last year but what did everyone find out was the best setting to plant the Dbltree rye mix with there GP drills? If we are putting on 100+ pounds to the acre should we be setting drills to plant 100+ pounds of rye to the acre? I think I ran drive type 2 set at 80 last year for my first try but that plants 48 pounds to the acre of rye. I know that wasn't thick enough when you add oats and peas. I know all drills settings are different but what should the target seed rate be? Let me know what you all think! :way:

 

[dbltree]

I know we talked about this some last year but what did everyone find out was the best setting to plant the Dbltree rye mix with there GP drills? If we are putting on 100+ pounds to the acre should we be setting drills to plant 100+ pounds of rye to the acre? I think I ran drive type 2 set at 80 last year for my first try but that plants 48 pounds to the acre of rye. I know that wasn't thick enough when you add oats and peas. I know all drills settings are different but what should the target seed rate be? Let me know what you all think! :way:

We mix 50 each of rye/oats/peas in GP/LP large seed box and plant 150#'s seed mix per acre on Drive 1, setting 90

I started by putting 150# mix in drill and planted 1 acre, then tweaked slightly from there and it ended up being pretty accurate but do your own testing as each drill may be slightly different.

The 3 seeds are completely different so you can not tell anything from charts

 

[Boz]

Too early to plant rye?

I am going to plant rye (just rye) into a couple acres that deer have destroyed soybeans, is it too early to do it this weekend?

 

[dbltree]

I am going to plant rye (just rye) into a couple acres that deer have destroyed soybeans, is it too early to do it this weekend?

It's plenty early but the rye isn't going to germinate until we get rain and at least down here there isn't a drop in sight. I would seed heavy because birds and rodents will have a feast until we get rain. 75-100#'s per acre to be safe.

 

[dbltree]

I know we talked about this some last year but what did everyone find out was the best setting to plant the Dbltree rye mix with there GP drills? If we are putting on 100+ pounds to the acre should we be setting drills to plant 100+ pounds of rye to the acre? I think I ran drive type 2 set at 80 last year for my first try but that plants 48 pounds to the acre of rye. I know that wasn't thick enough when you add oats and peas. I know all drills settings are different but what should the target seed rate be? Let me know what you all think! :way:

A friend with a GP drill sent me a note that I was incorrect on the drill setting I posted earlier, so I went back and searched and sure enough...I was wrong!!

I had planted 150# of the large seed mix with the drill on Drive 2 and the setting on 80 and planted 12# clover seed and 5# radish seed in the small seed box with it set on 40-45.

I wanted to correct myself before planting starts so if you have a Great Plains/Land Pride drill the above settings are what you'll need to use to plant the posted rye mix. :way:

 

[DUG]

A friend with a GP drill sent me a note that I was incorrect on the drill setting I posted earlier, so I went back and searched and sure enough...I was wrong!!



I wanted to correct myself before planting starts so if you have a Great Plains/Land Pride drill the above settings are what you'll need to use to plant the posted rye mix. :way:

We ran an acre off this weekend just for a trial run on drive type 1 set on around 80 and I ran out of seed around 8/10ths of an acre. I had 56#s of rye 50#s of oats and 50#s of peas in large seed box. I need to back the setting off to around 65 to 70 on the next try. I have 4 drive types on my GP drill 1,1A,2 and 2A. My drill also has 7 1/2" spacing. Drive type 2 set at 80 on my drill shows 42#s per acre on the rye chart. Drive type 1 at 80 shows 83#s per acre on the oats chart. I have a GP705NT. dbltree your drill is newer than mine so I am sure they have changed the settings. Not trying to confuse anyone just trying to save everyone some time!:way:

 

[magnus]

Yeah, definitely gets confusing trying to figure out how best to set drill to put out these "hybrid" mixes!!.....like 150#/ac of mixed seeds from the large box. I actually did use the Drive 2 / #80 lsetting ast year and as I recall that seemed to be good. According to my manual, Drive 2 is supposed to seed at 2x the rate as Drive 1. Drive 3 is 3x the rate of Drive 1, etc. Curious what other drill users' experiences are.......

 

[dbltree]

I have 4 drive types on my GP drill 1,1A,2 and 2A.

That would make a difference, the drills magnus and I have, have only 3 drive settings....best bet is to do a test run as Dug did and tweak settings accordingly :way:

Here's a link to manual for 3P806NT drill

3P806NT Manual

 

[showstopper]

Is there a difference between fall rye and winter rye? I can get fall rye but wanted to make sure it was the same stuff. Thanks in advance!

 

[dbltree]

Is there a difference between fall rye and winter rye? I can get fall rye but wanted to make sure it was the same stuff. Thanks in advance!

Nope...Fall rye, cereal rye, winter rye...all the same

Ryegrass however is NOT!! (ryegrass is basically lawn/turf type grass...do not buy that)

 

[letemgrow]

Is there a difference between fall rye and winter rye? I can get fall rye but wanted to make sure it was the same stuff. Thanks in advance!

Yes make sure its the grain variety and not the grass variety as Paul stated. It is also called cereal rye in my area besides being called rye and winter rye.

 

[impactarcher]

I was going to plant the rye mix this weekend but there is no rain forecasted for the next 15 days

Should a guy wait or plant and let it sit???? I have to haul all my planting equipment by trailer 2 hours one way so don't really want to waste time and fuel!

 

[dbltree]

I was going to plant the rye mix this weekend but there is no rain forecasted for the next 15 days

Should a guy wait or plant and let it sit???? I have to haul all my planting equipment by trailer 2 hours one way so don't really want to waste time and fuel!

The larger seeds are pretty drought tolerant and will be fine until we get rain, no hurry to plant so wait towards the first part of September if you can.

 

[impactarcher]

So let's assume we are faced with dry conditions into early to mid September. I'm assuming that white clovers needs a certain amount of time to grow before the first frost so it has developed enough root system to regrow the following spring. If its dry however well into September it stands to reason that essentially adding clover to the rye mix might be a waste of time and seed and would be better saved and planted in the spring. So for us guys waiting on rain that may not come in time, how late is too late to plant white clovers with the rye mix?? I'm speaking in terms of someone wanting to get the white clovers established not just for a yearly rotation.