Native Warm Season Grass

[panthers77]

The CRP ground I have is covered in Canary Grass and is matted down. I plan on putting the fields in a 3 yr rotation. I am going to strip disc a third to half the burned ground to release weeds and promote growth and leave the other half. I've thought about mowing part as well and running a drag harrow through it. Is there anything else I could do?
Feel that anything other than bare ground is better than the current situation. Also the farm is in Monroe County, should I wait to weeks to burn to promote the warm season grasses??
Thanks for the help!

 

[Daver]

The CRP ground I have is covered in Canary Grass and is matted down. I plan on putting the fields in a 3 yr rotation. I am going to strip disc a third to half the burned ground to release weeds and promote growth and leave the other half. I've thought about mowing part as well and running a drag harrow through it. Is there anything else I could do?
Feel that anything other than bare ground is better than the current situation. Also the farm is in Monroe County, should I wait to weeks to burn to promote the warm season grasses??
Thanks for the help!

I tried, but couldn't start, a burn this weekend in mostly brome grass, so if you wait much longer you may not be able to burn this year. It was a bit wet, but things are greening up fast in brome fields now. For warm season grasses, yes, you do want to burn them later, but if you have cool season grasses established now you probably cannot get a burn going 2 weeks from now.

My CRP was predominantly brome, cool season, but over time I have morphed it some to a weird mix of both brome and switch with various "others" mixed in. One tactic is to spray Roundup on the switch about this time of the year to kill it off some, but not a complete 100% kill. This will set the brome back and let various seeds already in the soil bank take hold. (Repeating this process now a couple of times is essentially how I ended up with my weird mix. I have also deliberately frost seeded switch in selected areas in the otherwise brome dominated field.)

Guys I know that did the light disking technique have regretted it later because the field is rough walking. Doing that will release other seeds already present, but could leave a rougher walk than what you want.

I would consider the spraying method if I were you unless you have a lot of volunteer trees in the field, those can be rough on sprayers.

 

[panthers77]

Thanks for the help, I will try burning this weekend and if it doesn't work I will give the round-up a go. I don't plan on walking the fields too much and would probably cultipack afterwards if I do a light disc. I may try spraying some and discing some to compare.
I thought about frost seeding as well but the CRP contract is up in two years so I hope to reseed it in Switchgrass then.

 

[jerred44]

My neighbor has a grass in his yard, He got a bulb from a company called Mchigan bulb, he planted it and it grew 6-8 feet tall, the second year the base was so big roughly the size of a small to med pizza pan, he split it down the middle and dug up one half of the plant and replanted it somewhere else in his yard, both grew fine, the 3rd year he split both plants again and replanted, he has been doing this for a few years. He does not know the name of the plant, this summer im gonna take a few pics to c exactly what it is. my question is can u do this with NWSG?

 

[dbltree]

my question is can u do this with NWSG?

He probably has a form of miscanthus which is a non-native warm season grass...most native warm season grasses probably would not work like that and are generally started from seed.

 

[dbltree]

June 1st, 2012

The following are a few pics of NWSG dormant seeded in early December 2009, so they are coming into their second growing season.

These pics were taken several weeks ago and the plants have grown substantially since then

The fluffy native grasses can be sown anytime from late November thru July 1st in most of the Midwest which gives most landowners lots of options. They can even be hands sown on a windy day in the winter time by casting the seed to the wind but otherwise a drill or seeder adapted to sowing fluffies is necessary (unlike switchgrass seed which is hard and easily sown with almost any type broadcast seeder)

I used 8-10 ounces of Panoramic/Plateau herbicide on this seeding last spring to control weeds and that allowed the natives to flourish although a severe summer drought delayed some growth.

I dormant seeded another area this past winter and sprayed Plateau at 10 ounces per acre on emerged weeds in the far left view of this field and you can see the "green" strip separating it from the right side where I sowed some switchgrass and used glyphosate and simazine.

I plant a lot of CRP NWSG mixes that almost always include a mix of forbs and grasses...the forb seed (wildflower type plants) look like this

The fluffy native grass seed (Big Bluestem, Indiangrass, Little Bluestem, Sideoats grama) looks like this...

very challenging to sow the fluffy seed without special equipment but enterprising folks have adapted leaf blowers and other such tools to get the job done and get seed on during the winter. The fluffies are usually not dormant seed like switchgrass often can be so they do not have to be sown in winter but like frost seeding clover....it is an option that works very well, regardless if you use a drill or sow by hand.

In my area the average landowner plants NWSG simply because they have to in order to get their land into the CRP program and most hire someone to plant the seed in the April to July 1st time frame...so May is a busy time for me! (note...soil should not be tilled before hand, something this landowner did not know)

Native grass should be planted very shallow...1/8 - 1/4" deep which is another great reason to dormant seed on frozen or semi-frozen soils....it's impossible to get seed to deep! In spring soils are often either to wet or very very dry and that creates a challenge to keep from sowing seeds to deep.

Depth wheels need to be set to a lower or even the lowest setting

Disc openers and press wheels set to the lightest setting

Constant monitoring to check the depth of the coulters in various soils

means we can spend a lot of time jumping on and off the tractor

checking to see that seeds are not being planted to deep

yet are mostly being covered

Usually a small % of seeds will be on top which tells me I am not burying the seed to deep

Because I previously used a Truax drill, the Great Plains drill requires some "by guess and by gosh" as NWSG seed is so variable and difficult to determine seeding rates. Several friends who own these drills took the time to help me get started and now and I can pass on some of what I have learned via this forum.

The Great Plains 3P806NT drill is also sold as the Land Pride 3P806NT...identical except for the paint and decals...a little like Chevy and GMC pickups.

Land Pride on one side

Great Plains on the other

So to avoid confusion...they are one in the same, mine being a 3pt with lift assist wheels to allow for trailering. This drill is very heavy weighing nearly 5000#'s empty!

A few key points....the sprockets determine the #'s per acre of fluffy seed

the following are some rough guidelines to get you started should you rent or buy one of these drills and may need to be tweaked depending on the type of fluffies you sow.

T23 = 7#
T22=8#
T21=9#
T20=10#
T19=11#

The acre meter is very accurate so I suggest weighing out an acre's worth of seed and see how close you come although the fluffies do not come out as well when the box is nearly empty.

The gear/range box will almost always be set on 1 when sowing fluffies

Use graphite on the fluffy seed to help it flow and double or triple it in hot humid weather

The back has to be leveled with a series of shims

Remember if you do not have a drill you can often rent one so check with your local NRCS office, these drills are too expensive for the average landowner but if you are blessed to own one they are very versatile tools to have in your habitat tool chest...

 

[dbltree]

June 10th, 2012

My friend Skip sent me some pics of some Bog Bluestem and Indiangrass he dormant seeded this past winter with a Truax drill...easy to see the rows when using a drill. he used Plateau/Panoramic herbicide to control weeds so the on;y thing coming up is definitely NWSG

He also broadcasted some seed in March in a garden area where he also sprayed with Plateau and is able to water it as well, even then the NWSG are only 2" tall

NWSG seedlings don't exactly spring up like common ag crops especially when planted in heavy clay soils and with little rainfall so it can be frustrating as we hunt for seedlings. Neither Skip or I have noticed any switchgrass emergence regardless of time of planting...both of us planted Cave In Rock and Kanlow but as of yet, we have not found a single emerged seedling.

I have areas that I winter seeded in March (broadcast), drilled in April and drilled again in May and Skips was all drilled at the same time as the BB and IG shown above. Skip used atrazine after first burning the sod down with gly last fall and i used simazine and 2 ounces of Plateau and left one area untreated for a comparison. It is impossible to see anything however in the untreated areas...looking for a seedling is like looking for a needle in a haystack.

On heavy soils switchgrass can tolerate up to 4 ounces of Plateau but any more and the seedlings could be killed, so in our area split applications of 2 ounces per acre are being used successfully.

In this field I burned it down in April with gly and crop oil

Drilled the switch in early May and then sprayed again with gly, 2 qts simazine and 2 ounces Plateau and right now it is a desert, however we have had almost no rain in May or June which is very unusual because these would be times when it typically rains 1 out of 3 days

A side note is that some random established switchgrass plants have thus far survived the repeated glyphosate applications?!

In a second test area I burned down only once right after drilling the switch and also applied the simazine/plateau combo.

In another field...test strip unsprayed (green area to left), gly, 2 qt simazine, 2 ounces plateau on right...drilled switchgrass

Untreated strip right side...10 ounces of plateau (no gly) sprayed in late April and part winter seeded to NWSG mix via broadcaster and part drill in May with drill..control not quite as good

Same field, different area but "brown" area sprayed post emergence with 10 ounces of plateau

Lot's of test comparisons and Skip has had an 1+ of rain that we did not get so it will be interesting to compare the final results this summer but so far we have one of the driest springs in recent history and that throws a curve ball we weren't expecting...

 

[slice and dice]

I frost seeded a very diverse mixture of 93 species this past winter in February right before one of those Mickey mouse snows we got. I can identify my black eyed susans because some are blooming already and are 14 inches tall! (could these be remnant or do they really grow that quickly??) There are some nice remnants close to me. The grasses have had to deal with some competition from ragweed but appear to be 1 to 8 inches tall. I have repeatedly mowed to 4 inches and am going to start moving up to 6 inches with the next mowing after the Queen annes lace flowers...I see it is bolting and about to flower. Was afraid to spray this spring with the warmth and the diversity of this mix....I should have, the one test patch I sprayed, just with gly after cool season green up looks great with some diverse seedlings, some of which have to be something good?! LOL.

That late freeze we got sure messed with some plants, not sure if it's normal, but some grasses that were up all turned bright purple/reddish in the leaves, it's still growing though and has really made some headway with the last rains and heat we have going now.

Great thread, was up late last night and read from page 1. This prairie will probably see some fall burns and early spring burns after the initial late spring burn in a couple years. I have had to keep it mowed very tight to keep light on the dirt with the dense ragweed in places and differing germination times of all the species.

Cutting off the tops of the prairie seedlings a few times appears to make them stronger and want to start clumping out, I just don't think you want to cut below the leaves/growing point, and leave a stem???

 

[dbltree]

, I just don't think you want to cut below the leaves/growing point, and leave a stem???

Right...always clip 8-10" high, never "mow" close to the ground unless NWSG is dormant such as early April

June 24th, 2012

I attempted to no-till drill some NWSG in a CP17A Living Snow Fence buffer back in late May but because of severely dry weather and compacted soils along the headland, the drill coulters would not penetrate the hard soil. The only way I could plant anything at all was to make two passes, one over top of the other to first loosen the soil, then it would go deep enough to allow the drive wheel to reach the soil surface, but that was too time consuming so I waited till we got .700" of rain the last of May and with the ground sufficiently softened I was able to go back and plant the buffers the 1st of June.

I inspected the buffer on June 22nd and noticed that some seed from the first attempt was coming up, having received another 4" of rain on June 16th/17th.

The seed planted after the rain in late May has not yet come up nor has any switchgrass seed planted at various times from mid winter to mid June. The fluffy seeds such as Big and Little Bluestem and Indiangrass definitely come up much quicker then switchgrass and I might add I planted 2 different varieties from 3 different sources and both fresh and year old seed, none of which has at this point made a difference. All of this is on very heavy clay and clay/loam soils so results on sandy loam soils with plenty of moisture are usually far different.

Much of Iowa, Missouri, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan and Ohio range anywhere from abnormally dry soils to severely dry so depending on sporadic rainfall amounts, germination and growth of NWSG seeds may vary widely this year. Most of the germination I have seen so far has been in TN and KY but as your NWSG comes up...please share in this thread along with time and method of planting so others can learn as well....

 

[slice and dice]

dbltree, what's your take on nwsg viability if it fails to germinate the establishment year?

Do you know if seeds that fail to germinate will dessicate and die or will they go dormant and germinate when conditions are favorable in the next year or three?

 

[Crimson Arrows]

Big Bluestem and Indian Grass coming up :way:

 

[Jbohn]

Drilled my WSG May 28th nothing yet , We get some rain in July they are going to take off like Gangbusters, Mid west is dry, got plenty of herbicides in the dirt to control the weeds so just need some rain..If not they'll be in the ground waiting on next year.

 

[dbltree]

June 29th, 2012

Some type of weed control is not only helpful but in many cases imperative when establishing NWSG stands and that can be done simply by mowing as often as needed at 6-12" high...well above young seedlings. Mowing however is far slower and expensive compared to using herbicides and not mowing allows seedlings to grow unimpeded to a much taller height the first year then they otherwise might.

Fortunately there are many herbicide options, although it is nearly impossible to find only one that will control all weeds without harming ANY NWSG or forbs. Herbicides also may be more or less effective on different soil types which then requires some experimentation to see what herbicides applied at what rates at what times of the year will be the most cost effective.

There is also the "unusual" circumstances and situations that might be rarely encountered...such as having to kill a beautiful stand of 2nd year alfalfa to establish NWSG! Never having been faced with this I can now say alfalfa can be real hard to kill and even though I fall sprayed with gly and 2-4D and it appeared dead...a full year later it came back as if I hadn't sprayed it with anything!

2-4D

A field full of robust alfalfa does not go along with establishing NWSG so I sprayed it again in April with 2 quarts 2-4D which at this point appears to have finally done it in. I left a strip around the outside and an area that very little alfalfa had survived for comparisons and it is interesting to note the difference.

Where I did not spray 2-4D...there are forbs including "weeds" like marestail, goldenrod and pigweed

Even though I sprayed early in the spring before there was evidence of any forbs, there are almost no forbs of any kind

because it was a "hay field" there are all kinds of cool season grasses trying to invade, along with foxtail...and mixed with all of that of course....NWSG

The 2nd year NWSG well enough established that foxtail is unlikely to be a serious threat but I'm going to spray with Quinclorac (Drive 75/Paramount) to test it's effectiveness on the end results at this stage of growth.

I drilled some switchgrass around the edge and sprayed the strips with atrazine and crop oil...again, just to experiment and it has burned back the marestail and alfalfa in that strip....note the green area on left that was not sprayed.

Simazine

Switchgrass seeding sprayed with 2 qts simazine and 2 ounces Plateau...still clean

No seedling emergence either

Regardless of what herbicides you try...always leave an untreated strip for comparison....note the foxtail in the foreground and no switchgrass has emerged there either and that helps to know that since no herbicides of any kind were used in the test strip...emergence or lack of it is totally unrelated to...herbicides.

Without a test strip it's impossible to determine if the herbicide used may have had a negative effect on the seed or....not.

In yet another situation....a tree planting thru the NWSG planting which is one year old....treated the first year with Plateau but the tree strips this spring were sprayed with 2 ounces of Oust XP and as you can see had no ill effect on the established native grass

Oust XP

Oust is deadly on grasses which is why I like to use it the FALL BEFORE planting NWSG to insure cool seasons are killed. On light loamy soils rates may need to be lowered and heavy soil, raised and it is impossible for me to test all soils with all herbicides. Soil in my area is heavy clay or clay loam soils which require higher rates of herbicides (soil applied) Oust will kill corn, sorghum, EW, cereal grains...it's DEADLY except on pigweed and even a year later it is rare to see grasses growing where Oust is applied.

One can see the advantage to that but...established NWSG is impervious because it has deep root systems but new seedlings of course do not, so timing of any application of Oust is critical and is should not be used within 3 months of seeding switchgrass.

Once established however...I have been unable to kill NWSG with Oust...

Glyphosate... on emerged switchgrass...not saying you should go out and spray switchgrass with roundup but this is the second case where switchgrass was 8-12" high...sprayed in this case with 1 quart 53% gly and...well....looks pretty healthy to me?!

In this case they were random switch plants in a field being planted to switchgrass so I am elated that they did not die but also somewhat amazed at the resilience of these native prairie grasses...

Plateau/Panoramic

Sprayed post emergence with 10 ounces per acre of Plateau back in early May...some broadleaf weeds but nothing severe

No smothering foxtail or ragweed and seedlings have plenty of sunlight

On a different note...a comparison even in early summer of the height of a CIR switchgrass plant compared to invasive goldenrod around it....no comparison in cover and I do everything I can with herbicides, burning and mowing to keep NWSG thick, robust and tall for whitetail cover and sterile invasive low value cover to a minimum....

 

[Jbohn]

Dbltree, your thought on if a WSG stand doesnt germinate till late July or Early August will the seedling make it through the winter and survive. Thanks

 

[dbltree]

Dbltree, your thought on if a WSG stand doesn't germinate till late July or Early August will the seedling make it through the winter and survive. Thanks

I don't have any hard facts on this but I believe a certain % of seed may germinate the following year. In most cases by the end of the summer however the grasses will finally appear, more appear the following summer but it is difficult to say if they were just very small seedlings the first year or seed that did not germinate...usually the former rather then the latter....

 

[Jbohn]

dbltree, what do u know about , Nitric oxide accelerates seed germination in warm- season grasses and the effects on a first year establishment. Does this give better results , thanks

 

[slice and dice]

my seedlings in the clean areas look like native warm season beef jerky! Interesting year, marked the worst ones (yellow, semi-soft, and laying down) and am going to track if they recover once rain begins again.

In areas of shade....either from weeds or trees it appears the ground has retained some moisture or protection from the sun. Those seedlings look like they could go another 30 days in these conditions.

I'm calling my weeds a good first year cover crop???

Diverse mix planting I did by the house has been interesting: I hooked up to the well and put 1.5 inches of water on it with badly wilting and crisping seedlings and had IMMEDIATE recovery and strong germination of many new forb species....Many weeds have melted down and aren't so quick to recover. Ragweed has recovered the best.

I have been told that late germinating seedlings will be fine over the winter as long as sufficient weed growth/cover crop is in place to minimize frost heaving. Some forb species (in a diverse planting) are programmed to germinate in the fall and readily survive winter.

From National Weather Servive precip analysis:
.25 inches of rain in my area over the past 30 days. Past 60 days is at 1.5 inches.

Fun stuff

 

[dbltree]

dbltree, what do u know about , Nitric oxide accelerates seed germination in warm- season grasses and the effects on a first year establishment. Does this give better results , thanks

They have done some testing but I have not heard of any commercial applications. Winter/frost seeding accomplishes all of that naturally...that I do know...

 

[Jbohn]

Will deer eat on young seedlings and if so what effect will it have. ?

 

[dbltree]

Will deer eat on young seedlings and if so what effect will it have. ?

We have very high deer densities here and I have never witnessed deer actually eating NWSG seedlings nor having any negative affects on them.