Native Warm Season Grass

[LoessHillsArcher]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dbltree</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here is a chunk of brome we are hoping to burn this early May, it has some little blue stem and big blue stem coming through but there is much more laying they waiting to sprout. </div></div>

Remember to burn late if your going to use burning alone to encourage the native grasses. If you plan to kill the brome with roundup then you'll need to burn very early and spray the brome at first green up.

Keep us posted on your project! /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif </div></div>

Tthe first or second week in May should be correct timing, right?

I never thought about burning early and then RUp on the new brome growth, probably too big of an area and going to be real hard to get anything with a boom sprayer on those hills, we'll consider it though!

 

[dbltree]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The first or second week in May should be correct timing, right? </div></div>

Yes, perfect timing to burn and set back cool season grasses ad encourage native warm season grasses. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif


For those considering a stand of native warm season grass I just want to remind you that planning is a key to a successful planting.

Look wayyy ahead not just next week! /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Planting soybeans the year before is a great way to prepare a ideal seedbed for either broadcasting or no-till drilling of prairiegrass seed. It creates an ideal soil surface for frost seeding your native grass or clover.

Soybeans can be no-tilled into sod and then using roundup for herbicide you can kill sod with several sprayings.

This field was in hay just before they no-tilled the beans but now it's March and it would be perfect for planting NWSG.

Fluffy seed will make great soil/seed contact if you need to broadcast it if was in beans the previous year.

Planning ahead...food for thought... /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

[LoessHillsArcher]

Well we aren't planting NWSG but we had about 27 acres that was majority brome with some little and big blue stem and indian grass in it. We just did a burn on April 19th hoping it would set back the brome and help the NWSG out. It won't be a stand like you planted but the burn area is real easy and maybe after a few years of burning we hope to have a good stand of NWSGs. Time will tell but here are some pictures.

Before

After..I wish I had a time stamp on the pictures because it was about 20 minutes between these two pictures! /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Before

Man you can learn alot about how the wind works with swirls and thermals, was a fun afternoon!

 

[dbltree]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Man you can learn alot about how the wind works with swirls and thermals, was a fun afternoon! </div></div>

Yes you do! Looks like you did fine though...keep us posted on how the burns work. The only thing I would say is try burning later, like early to mid may in the future to set back cool season grasses and encourage the NWSG.

Great pics...thanks for sharing! /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

[LoessHillsArcher]

Ya, this was the only weekend that really worked for us and any later we would have a crop in the ground and couldn't get 4wheelers back there with water on them. In hind-sight we could have probably got it done later but for our first burn we've got this one down to where we can do it in a couple hours with the right conditions and little equipment, future burns will be later!

 

[dbltree]

Some pics of my established NWSG on June 1st...

Some green growth starting at the bases of the clumps

Interesting to see the difference where I ran a mower thru this stand last year. The clumps seem to be greening up quicker and some wildflowers appeared while none are in the standing NWSG.

Indiangrass growth on June 1

Big Bluestem 06-01-08

Cave In Rock switchgrass June 1st

Birdsfoot trefoil is always laying there ready to go if it has a chance.

Daisys seem to be the only "wildflowers" that ever come back after burning or mowing. It takes some intensive management to maintain a stand of diverse forbs.

I prefer to manage for the tallgrasses as a place for winter bedding and upland bird winter cover by burning late to suppress forbs and coolseason competition and keep my tallgrass thick and dominate.

Goldenrod is a real problem in my prairegrass stands...easily killed with 2-4d or set back by late spring burning, but it is a constant battle to keep it from taking over. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

If you burned this spring your native grasses should be starting to put on some growth! /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Prairiegrass information compliments of Osenbaugh Prairiegrass Farms
Cave In Rock Switchgrass

Switchgrass Varieties

Killing Brome and Fescue

Growing Prairies Successfully

 

[Sligh1]

dbltree, QUESTION- of the land I showed you I planted about 6-7 acres to Indian Grass and Big Blue Stem mixed together and that's it (no switch). I did 25 acres straight CIR too in other areas.

I know CIR has a hard time germinating, will it be the same with above mix OR should I see the Indian and Big Blue germinating soon here?

Should the maintanence and care be the same with CIR as the areas I planted to Big Blue and Indian?

Think it was a fair idea to diversify with the other seed choices? I also have 6 acres of CP-25. So, I have 25 acres of CIR at 8-10 lbs acre, 6-7 acres BB Stem/Indian and 6 acres CP-25. I will have option to do additional stuff later as well which I'll seek advice. THANKS!

 

[dbltree]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sligh1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">dbltree, QUESTION- of the land I showed you I planted about 6-7 acres to Indian Grass and Big Blue Stem mixed together and that's it (no switch). I did 25 acres straight CIR too in other areas.

I know CIR has a hard time germinating, will it be the same with above mix OR should I see the Indian and Big Blue germinating soon here?

Should the maintanence and care be the same with CIR as the areas I planted to Big Blue and Indian?

Think it was a fair idea to diversify with the other seed choices? I also have 6 acres of CP-25. So, I have 25 acres of CIR at 8-10 lbs acre, 6-7 acres BB Stem/Indian and 6 acres CP-25. I will have option to do additional stuff later as well which I'll seek advice. THANKS! </div></div>

You absolutely did the right thing by diversifing your plantings!

The "fluffy" seeds prairiegrasses like Big Bluestem and Inidangrass germinate eaiser then switchgrass so they should germinate anytime this month.

Management is very much the same, just different options. Atrazine can used to control weeds in new switchgrass and Big Bluestem seedings but not in Indiangrass. Plateau can be used to establish Big Blue, Indangrass and other native grasses but NOT switchgrass.

Clipping to control weeds the first few years is the same (mow 8-12" high)burn late spring to encourage tallgrass, burn early to encourage forbs. Most whitetailers will want to encourage tallgrass with late burnings.

This makes NWSG plantings that include wildflowers a little more difficult to manage or a bit of a waste of money for the forb seed.

Prairies are beautiful and like tree plantings can be an awesome addition to your wildlife habitat projects. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif

 

[Sligh1]

Re: Plateau/Journey herbicide for NWSG

dbltree, QUESTION for ya, I haven't been down to the land for a while. Not sure if the area down there flooded? If it did, will that hurt the new seeding, some is CIR, some is Indian and BB Stem. Would it wash away new seeds OR would it kill seeds that had germinated?!?!?!
THANKS A TON!

 

[fullrut2]

Re: Plateau/Journey herbicide for NWSG

dbltree,
what difference do you see with your crp?

between the mowed and the unmowed?

my mowed seems to come back better.

 

[dbltree]

Re: Plateau/Journey herbicide for NWSG

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fullrut2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">dbltree,
what difference do you see with your crp?

between the mowed and the unmowed?

my mowed seems to come back better. </div></div>

I almost never mow mine simply because it defeats the purpose of having the tall cover thru the fall and winter. But I suspect that clipping it late in the summer just removes some of the "stems" and allows it to warm and green up faster in the spring.

Burning does the same thing but allows the cover to be there thru the winter.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not sure if the area down there flooded? If it did, will that hurt the new seeding, some is CIR, some is Indian and BB Stem. Would it wash away new seeds OR would it kill seeds that had germinated?!?!?!
</div></div>

We do have some very serious flooding going on down here but if it will just STOP...then things can dry out and your seeding will be fine.

If the ground stays flooded for an extended period of time then new seedlings could be in trouble. Mature plants can take it for a little longer.

We've been pounded with rain here for days now and the flash flooding is dangerous so just wait until things calm down before even checking on it.

 

[kleppert]

dbltree, thanks for all your information on this post, I have benefitted from it. I have a maintainance question for you.

Last year I established 1A of Grass (big, little bluestem, switchgrass). I mowed an old field, sprayed roundup, rototilled, waited and sprayed roundup again then broadcast seed. Germination seemed OK last year and now this year I have a knee high field that is mixed with NWG and weeds. I'm concerned that the weeds may out compete the NWG. My question is should I mow this field or just let everything grow up and burn next spring or what would you suggest I do. Also, my brushhog at its highest setting is about 6" tall, is this too short to mow?

Thanks, TS

 

[dbltree]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a knee high field that is mixed with NWG and weeds. I'm concerned that the weeds may out compete the NWG. My question is should I mow this field or just let everything grow up and burn next spring or what would you suggest I do. Also, my brushhog at its highest setting is about 6" tall, is this too short to mow?
</div></div>

If most of the grasses seem to be above the weeds or at least even with them, then waiting and burning late next spring might be best.

If weeds are growing way above the NWSG then mowing might be needed but 6 " is pretty low. 12" would be better to help keep from smothering and injuring the plant crowns.

I lift my brushhog right off the ground so that the back wheel isn't even touching by lifting the 3 pt. hitch. If you have a pull type then that might not be possible.

If the weeds are already bad and you feel mowing is needed at 6" high, I wouldn't wait much longer or you will smother to many plants. Look closely though...if sunlight is getting to the NWSG plants then mowing might not be needed.

Feel free to post a pic or email some to me if your unsure. It's always hard to judge without seeing exactly what is going on. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

[JEG]

I would mow, just try to keep the weeds from heading out. Maybe stop the mowing in july to let the grass grow then you should have some fuel for a burn next spring.

 

[dbltree]

Re: Native Warm Season Grass - Weed Control

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What would you recommend for NWSG seeded last month that is already greening up with grass and a few weeds?
NRCS recommended (and would only pay for) 2 spring RU sprayings. I paid for 4oz per acre of Plateau out of my own pocket. Unfortunately, the plateau ran out leaving 12 acres with RU only. The plateau acres are still mostly brown while the RU only acres are greening back up.
</div></div>

It's hard to beat Plateau or Journey for residual weed control in NWSG but only Plateau can be applied post-emergence.

If you don't have any forbs (wildflowers etc.) mixed in then you can use 2-4D for broadleaf weeds after the grasses have reached the 3-4 leaf stage, but 2-4D will kill your forbs if they are in the mix.

The only options that are really viable now is clipping weeds at 8-12" high as needed. There are so many different types of grasses in a NWSG that finding a herbicide that won't kill one or the other is nearly impossible.

Clip this summer and then you can spray in early spring with Roundup if need be before the NWSG greens up or use Journey (Plateau and roundup)before greenup for both residual and contact control. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

[LoessHillsArcher]

Re: Native Warm Season Grass - Weed Control

If you flip back a couple pages in this thread you'll see some before/after pictures of a burn of brome grass we did this past spring. We thought we might be a few weeks early but were happy to complete our first burn safely. Here is some updated pictures...we are more than pleased with the results and would reccomend burning as a powerful management tool! You wouldn't believe the change in plant diversity..going from majority brome to weeds, legumes, alfalfa, more NWSF, and some stunted brome! This particular area takes about 1 hour to burn with 3 guys able to contain it. Something we plan on doing each spring!

One question, some areas the brome really really was set back. You can see bare dirt and we were thinking frost seeding Swtich or another NWSG in there would help the wildlife out? My question is would it work to frost seed the area in Feb./Mar. and then burn again early May? Would the burn harm the seed?

out with the cedars, in with the big blue stem I believe

another area that showed great turn around

you can really see the clumps of Natives on this hill side

Lastly, we swear it was alfalfa that was thriving in spots? I know this is over grown pasture that hasn't been in use for about 10 years, is this likely? It looks like amazing nesting/rearing cover for quail, pheasant, and turkey...nice open dirt floor for easy travel and a zillion bugs!

 

[Crimson Arrows]

Re: Native Warm Season Grass - Weed Control

So the farmer I just signed on with to farm my 6 acres of alfalfa mistakenly took a swath through my first year switch /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif I had called him the night before and asked him to stay away but he must have forgotten. In any case, I had mowed 3 weeks ago to about 12" but now I have two swaths through the 5 acre field that you could play golf on! I knew this year would be more a "germination" year but I hop the seedling weren't affected. He had baled my 6 acre clover patch and is planting alfalfa but should I be concerned or as he said, "its a grass and will be fine".

 

[Keef]

Re: Native Warm Season Grass - Weed Control

Where is the best place to buy NWSG? It's pretty expensive if I recall correctly.

 

[dbltree]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> we swear it was alfalfa that was thriving in spots?</div></div>

I'd say it is birdsfoot trefoil...when I killed my brome the birdsfoot exploded! The NWSG soon out comepteted it but the seed is still laying there...waiting.....

Your NWSG renovation looks awesome!!! Thanks for sharing the pics! Normally they don't recommend burning in the seeding year but heck...I would try it in some of those bare areas and see what happens! Maybe mark some areas so you know for sure...if the spots are bare the fire will burn around them anyway.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Keef</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Where is the best place to buy NWSG? It's pretty expensive if I recall correctly. </div></div>

Check with Osenbaughs over by Lucas Iowa

Osenbaugh’s Prairie Seed Farms

Took a few pics of my NWSG today August 18th

This is Indiangrass in the foreground and Big Bluestem towering above switchgrass in the back ground.

Indiangrass in the foreground switchgrass on hill

This is the base (clump) of Indiangrass

Switchgrass

Base of switchgrass...not so much of a "clump" as Big Blue and Indiangrass

 

[Sligh1]

Re: Plateau/Journey herbicide for NWSG

Specific QUESTION/SCENARIO….

I drilled in Indian Grass and BB Stem into some sparse CIR. Before I did this I sprayed with round-up and 2,4-d.
Now, there is all 3 grasses. A ton of SHORT foxtail (because of the round-up in spring obviously), it’s short because I mowed everything about 5 weeks ago. Sunlight to all the grasses seems to be fine.

My question is, what should I do next spring/summer??? (I can’t hit with Atrazine because of Indian Grass).

A few options could be: Round-up and 2,4-d before NWSG’s start growing. And/or I could mow again (like to avoid that if possible). LASTLY, I have another patch SIMILAR that did great the 2nd year (next spring will be 2nd growing season on this of course) by doing NOTHING. In this last scenario- I would simply be hoping that the grasses this year got their root structures going well and next year would out-compete anything else. NOT SURE THOUGH, what would you do??!???? THANKS!!!!!!!