Switchgrass

[dbltree]

Do you think I could frost seed into the current/live CP25 stand to have more CIR in my stand? I may wait and see next year how it looks, but I'm looking to beef up the CIR in the mix. I have a few acres left to play with and maybe I'll go straight CIR there.

You can frost seed into the NWSG stand but I would just pick an area that you want to be a bedding area and try adding CIR there perhaps next to the acres that haven't been seeded yet.

Even though I feel switchgrass is great bedding and winter habitat, I wouldn't want anyone to switch ALL their habitat to pure switch. A portion in switchgrass and the rest in NWSG is the ticket!

The Big Blue and Indian Grass can be pretty competitive at first and once they get a head start it may be hard for CIR seedlings to get going, compared to seeding all at the same time.

One thing about it...it's easy enough to do! Best time is Feb and early March using a hand broadcast spreader. Set it low cause that stuff will be gone in no time as small as it is!

 

[dbltree]

Took a little hike thru my switchgrass the other day...sure is a lot of deer beds like this one:

The switch isn't as pretty as the NWSG mixed stands...but pretty is as pretty does...it does the job

Most NRCS people still tend to give bad advice when it comes to planting switchgrass.

There is so much information on the need for switchgrass seed to be stratified before it will germinate that it makes it difficult for me to understand why they still encourage May/June seedings


It's easy to see from other posts how well frost seeding of clover works...and it works even better for switchgrass. Without the wet/chill process it normally will not germinate until the following year.

Some people get around this by soaking the seed in cold water in mesh sacks and refrigerating it for several weeks to imitate Mother Nature.

Older seed stored at warm temperatures will also sometimes cause it to break dormancy.

Why fight it? Plant it Feb/March and let the weather do it's job just as it did for eons before we showed up

Be sure to start now!

If it's in brome or fescue, mow it close now, let it start to green up and kill it with a full dose of Roundup!

Better yet...seed into a field that was planted to RR beans...the bare soil is perfect to broadcast or no-till drill switchgrass on frozen ground.

If possible use Atrazine the first year, or clip weeds 8-12" high and spray with 2-4D in late summer to knock out broadleaves.

Right now Cave-in Rock seed is running about $10-12 a pound and you need 5-8# per acre. Often you can get discounted seed thru a Pheasants Forever chapter which trhu the state level has much greater buying power. Good reason to become a PF member!

From this Switchgrass link:

Warm-season grasses have varying degrees of seed dormancy.
Switchgrass naturally drops its seed during the
fall and winter. In northern regions, overwintering naturally
cold stratifies the seed, thereby reducing existing
dormancy. Cold stratification can also be done by allowing
the seeds to imbibe water and then chilling them at
4 degrees C for 2 to 4 weeks. However, stratification
may be avoided by aging the seeds for a year. Seed that
is more than 1 or 2 years old could have reduced
viability.

Because seed dormancy is common in switchgrass,
seeding rates are standardized using a convention
referred to as pure live seed (PLS). Switchgrass seed
sold by seed companies should be sold by percent PLS
in addition to the percent purity, germination and hard
(dormant) seed. When determining the pounds of bulk
seed needed per acre, the purity and germination percentages
must first be changed to respective decimals
(e.g., 95 percent purity would be 0.95). The PLS calculation
is made by multiplying the purity decimal by the
germination decimal, excluding dormant seed that may
germinate later but would not generally germinate within
2 to 4 weeks. The desired number of pounds of pure
live seed (PLS) is then divided by the product of the
purity X germination calculation. For example, if the
target planting rate of switchgrass seed is 9 pounds
PLS/acre and the tag indicated that seed purity = 90 percent,
germination = 75 percent and hard seed (will not
germinate) = 15 percent, the following calculation would be made: 0.90 X 0.75 = 0.675 = PLS decimal.
Target rate ÷ PLS decimal = 9.0 ÷ 0.675 = 13.3 bulk
pounds.
Therefore, 13.3 bulk pounds of switchgrass seed per
acre would be needed to obtain the target rate of
9 pounds PLS per acre. Variables affecting optimal rates
include method of seeding, precipitation patterns, temperature
patterns, seed predation and anticipated weed
competition.

Few more links to info about switchgrass:


Switcgrass seeding reccomendations in Iowa

Switchgrass profile

Planting Switchgrass in winter to break dormancy

STUDIES ON THE PLASTICITY OF DORMANCY AND ON AGING IN SWITCHGRASS SEEDS

Planting and Managing Switchgrass for Forage, Wildlife, and Conservation

Breeding for Reduced Post-Harvest Seed Dormancy in Switchgrass

If seed are planted into a dry soil,<SUP> </SUP>for example, stratification is initiated only after a rainfall<SUP> </SUP>event, and the soil temperature must be low enough to chill<SUP> </SUP>the seed before germination. If it does not rain until late<SUP> </SUP>spring or early summer, the soil temperatures can be too high<SUP> </SUP>for stratification to occur, and germination is delayed until<SUP> </SUP>the temperature and moisture conditions are favorable, which<SUP> </SUP>may not occur until the following spring.<SUP> </SUP>
<SUP></SUP>
Even if the conditions for stratification are met and the seed<SUP> </SUP>germinate, seedlings emerging in late spring or early summer<SUP> </SUP>face the prospect of unreliable rainfall, which also can negatively<SUP> </SUP>impact stand establishment. An approach that can circumvent<SUP> </SUP>these uncontrollable environmental events is to artificially<SUP> </SUP>stratify the seed before planting, but this also can be problematic.<SUP> </SUP>If the seed are artificially stratified but the weather or soil<SUP> </SUP>conditions are not conducive to planting, the seed must either<SUP> </SUP>be placed in cold storage or quickly dried to prevent sprouting.<SUP> </SUP>Unfortunately, drying stratified seed can cause some of them<SUP> </SUP>to revert back to a dormant

Switchgrass germination tests

The seed of switchgrass is very small, and much of it is dormant (will not germinate) right after it is harvested. However, aging, treating it with water and chilling temperatures (stratification) or storing it in warm conditions will break dormancy.

 

[passinthru]

Dbltree,

I have about 25 acres of fescue I would like to convert to CIR.

Too late to spray, maybe I should mow it. I know the Atrazine has residual though. The full rate of Atrazine won't be a problem, I am a farmer. Was planning on frost seeding the switch.

What would you suggest I do at this late of a start.

Thanks for your time.

 

[dbltree]

Dbltree,


I have about 25 acres of fescue I would like to convert to CIR.

Too late to spray, maybe I should mow it. I know the Atrazine has residual though. The full rate of Atrazine won't be a problem, I am a farmer. Was planning on frost seeding the switch.

What would you suggest I do at this late of a start.

Thanks for your time.

Fescue is one of the toughest grasses to kill and it's important that you do KILL it!

I would mow it any time even later this winter and if it's possible burn it before broadcasting the CIR switchgrass in mid to late winter. (it can be no-till drilled or broadcast)

The switch seed won't germinate until early summer so the best bet will be to kill the fescue just as soon as it starts to green up with the full rate of Roundup. (Atrazine alone isn't going to do the trick on fescue)

Atrazine can be applied then or anytime before weeds emerge (if your a farmer...you know the drill on Atrazine )

Fescue...if allowed to survive would never let the switchgrass get a start so it's very important to kill it and kill it good! <

 

[passinthru]

Thanks Dbltree,

Yep, I planned on Roundup w/ the atrazine. I'll mow and try to burn it. May have to hire the burning done. Can't wait to get this started.

Thanks again.

 

[dbltree]

Speaking of switchgrass...

I wear a little headlamp on my cap to walk in and out in the dark and one morning this hill side looked like Christmas lights

Plenty of deer camping out in the "tallgrass" for sure!

Have I mentioned that before?

 

[passinthru]

Dbltree,

I have been talking with some people that burn for a living, mostly in MN, WI, and some in S. Dakota, so there not real familiar with southern Iowa.

They are recommending not burning till next spring, and not mowing so I have a very hot fire, I think he called it Class 5, but I could be wrong.

I want to frost seed the CIR in Feb or march, would you mow it still and try to burn,then frost seed it. Or should I leave it unmowed for a hotter fire.

I would really like to get it seeded and on its way this year. But I know lack of planning on my part should not create an emergency for everyone else.
Thanks

 

[dbltree]

lack of planning on my part should not create an emergency for everyone else.

I would say they are giving you good advice

If you can burn it in mid winter then you would have a good clean seed bed to seed into in March, even if it's late March.

Burning would be better then mowing but it's the timing...will you have snow cover until April?

Ideally...I mow in late summer, kill the new growth with RUP in September and seed in late winter, so it does make it tough at this point.

If you can burn it...even in very early April, seed and then spray the new growth with RUP you could make it work.

What grass is there now? Brome or fescue? That could make a difference in your plans as well.

Planning is important and it's very important to get a good kill on whatever is there now.

Burning later in the spring and then planting RR soybeans and spraying the sod several times thru out the summer is the best bet.

You kill the sod, the trash rots down and you are all set to winter seed (just food for thought for those in the planning stage )

 

[passinthru]

Thanks Dbltree,

My farm is in Clarke county, I should be able to burn down there fairly early. Do you think Mid Feb. is too early? I believe I'm dealing with fescue.

This is on HEL so I dont know if I can get RR beans in there, have a hard time even getting my neighbor to mow it. He rolled an anhydrous tank there when he used to row crop it.

Hope to create some fire breaks there soon, probably rent an atv brush hog or see how big my neighbors stalk chopper is. Having all my equipment 3 hrs north puts a crimp in things sometimes.

Sold my chopper last year anyway.

 

[dbltree]

He rolled an anhydrous tank there when he used to row crop it.

Ok...so maybe no row crops!

Just to remove the "trash" cover you could burn anytime, but Feb. would be fine.

The trick is going to be trying to kill that fescue in one shot when it comes back up

We'll have to cover more details on killing fescue this winter. It's difficult to kill it in one shot.

With switchgrass you can also use atrazine to help control weeds and grasses also.

In future years the timing of your burn will be important to kill any fescue coming back. Late spring burns will be important then.

 

[dbltree]

Took a little hike thru the switchgrass stands the other day.

Few deer highways...

Tried to scare up a pheasant but all we put up were turkeys!

Blasted things will scare the livin daylights out of you in this stuff!

If your going to hunt with a Golden Retriever might want a bell on em

Looks like they still find it a comfy place to nap

Wonder what I would see if I stuck a trail cam in thier "bed room"

 

[ajadams]

I'm thinking about putting in some switchgrass in a few spots my dad had dozing done. I was thinking about cave in rock but noticed it reproduces with underground stems. Am I going to have problems controlling it down the road along his corn fields? Is there another type that doesn't reproduce this way? I was also looking at big bluestem but it was $155 an acre. I'm looking at doing maybe 10 Acres = $1550 Wow. Is there a cheaper route to go? Also some of it is on hel so I was going to throw oats or something in with it, will that hurt anything?

 

[dbltree]

You will not have a problem with switchgrass "spreading" to other fields via tillering. It's a very slow process and it basically helps to thicken the stand rather then spread it.

If it does spread at all it will be by windblown or animal/bird carried seed.

there are thousands of acres of switchgrass planted along riparion buffers and waterways adjacent to cropland that I have observed for years.

None of it has spread so much as a foot.

I have seen native big Bluestem spread by wind blown seed..but not into cropland but rather into CRP ground

Generally most corn or soybean herbicides including Roundup will prevent any native grasses from taking ahold in actively farmed ground.

Cross that off your list of worries

 

[dbltree]

Here's a pic of switchgrass planted as a riparian buffer with tyical corn/soybean rotation crop field beside it.

It's been there for some time and has never spread. Tillage, Roundup and corn herbicides pretty much assure it's not going to far

Sometimes in my "searches" for backup information on the benefits of dormant/frost seeding switchgrass...I run across "myself"


I don't remember how old this article is:

‘TIS THE SEASON FOR DORMANT SEEDING

More good links:

Planting and managing switchgrass

This article also covers dormant seeding of switchgrass:

Switchgrass in Sothern Iowa

Covers ragdoll and wetchill:

Wetchill process

Cover more on dormant seed and general advice:

Dormant seed

If your site has been prepared by killing off the sod last fall via roundup...or was in RR soybeans, you can plant switcgrass seed anytime now.

5-8# per acre broadcast or drilled when the soil is frozen in early morning.

John Osenbaugh’s Prairie Seed Farms is my first choice for switchgrass and other NWSG seed in Iowa!

Remember Atrazine is the preffered herbicde for controlling weed competition in switchgrass.

Spray in early spring at 2-4 quarts per acre (more is better...)

Atrazine is a Restricted Use Pesticide requiring you to either hire it sprayed on or purchasing thru someone who has a Pesticide Applicators license.

Herbicides


Many articles list Shelter switchgrass as better for wildlife but in Iowa Cave In Rock switchgrass will be the longest lived and provide the tallest and thickest cover for deer /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

[ajadams]

Dbltree, I was talking to a guy at the classic (Tecomate boothe) about switchgrass planting and costs. He was saying that a good one was Decotah. It is an older one and is far cheaper than alot of the newer ones. He said it would do just fine around here. I've been trying to find a place that sells it but am not having any luck. I also asked him about frost seeding it. He flat out said that it would'nt work because it is a warm season grass. I know you and other people have good luck frost seeding switch so I don't know why he would think that. He was also a researcher for some university in south dakota and not a tecomate rep. I kind of wonder if he just never tried frost seeding it. Any info on the docotah switch? I looked through this thread and didn't see anything, thanks Aj

 

[dbltree]

Dbltree, I was talking to a guy at the classic (Tecomate boothe) about switchgrass planting and costs. He was saying that a good one was Decotah. It is an older one and is far cheaper than alot of the newer ones. He said it would do just fine around here. I've been trying to find a place that sells it but am not having any luck. I also asked him about frost seeding it. He flat out said that it would'nt work because it is a warm season grass. I know you and other people have good luck frost seeding switch so I don't know why he would think that. He was also a researcher for some university in south dakota and not a tecomate rep. I kind of wonder if he just never tried frost seeding it. Any info on the docotah switch? I looked through this thread and didn't see anything, thanks Aj

I just love "the experts" that have no idea what they are talking about!


First...anyone who says frost seeding switchgrass or any NWSG mixes...won't work is flat out not qualified to be giving out any information on the subject!

Most all of you have seen my pics and ALL of it was frost seeded!!

I have posted reams of info including studies by ISU and others that frost seeding not only works...in most cases it works best!

As for Dacotah' Switchgrass...it is not an ecotype for our area of Iowa. Check back thru this thread and you can see why Cave In Rock switchgrass is expensive...it's the best and most adpated eco-type for this area.

My property is living proof as I have tryed several other varieties.

No one has to believe me...but I have nothing to gain from giving any of you bad or mis-information and what I tell you is from my own hands on experience spanning more then a decade.

It is an older one and is far cheaper than alot of the newer ones.

Huh?? Newer ones?? CIR switchgrass is an eco-type that has been around for eons

10 years ago I tried "saving a buck" by planting part of my ground to other types of switchgrass...and ended up re-seeding it to CIR several years later.

It's your dollar...but cheaper isn't always better......
Note the map of the range of Dacotah switchgrass...S.D., N.D. and MN...

Dacotah' Switchgrass

While we're on the subject...here's some of my CIR switchgrass yesterday.

Still standing after all the ice, snow and wind.

 

[PYBucks]

ajadams, contact your local IDNR private land biologists. They had 50% cost share vouchers for switchgrass seed. I bought my seed a couple weeks ago using the voucher.

Switchgrass prices have really gone up since last fall but the voucher will help if you can still get one.

Call Roger at Custom Seed (712-784-2430) western IA, I got my CIR seed for $9.25 a pound from him.

Tim

 

[TimberPig]

Switchgrass prices have really gone up since last fall but the voucher will help if you can still get one.

Call Roger at Custom Seed (712-784-2430) western IA, I got my CIR seed for $9.25 a pound from him.

Tim

Yikes! Those prices have really gone up, I think CIR seed was around $5/lb from Osenbaugh's last year.

 

[passinthru]

I was at Osenbaughs yesterday and CIR was $11.95 a pound.

Got my seeding done this morning, and had a blast. Hopefully I'll have a hillside full of grass to take a picture of in couple years. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

John recommended spraying a full rate of atrazine and a half rate of dual around April 1 then Roundup May5 to May 10th. He said you might ding 10 percent of the switch with the roundup but not much more than that will have germinated by then.

John also recommended spraying Roundup Oct. 1 of the second fall for the swithgrass. He said that would help reduce competition also.

Anyone used these recommendations before.

Also tromped around for a few hours looking for sheds. Cows must of eaten them all, no luck.

 

[locust]

is it too late to "frost seed" a CP25 mix on bare ground considering the temps? I had my one day in the field this year last week and finished clover frost seeding and it seemed to be a good day for that, but I ran out of time. I have some CP25 mix left over and I have small areas I want to put in those areas, but am wondering with the temps if it is worth it...I don't have a drill or anything so it seems now or never. I also frost seeded CP25 a week or so back in an area with a fairly steep slope and favorable freeze thaw days following since it was a south facing slope. In order to avoid run off(both seed and soil) do you think covering the frost seeded area with straw would help with runoff and not affect the grasses from growing? or would some other covering be recommended?