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Switchgrass

is it too late to "frost seed" a CP25 mix on bare ground considering the temps?


I have seeded NWSG mix all the way into April with good results, by just broadcasting it on killed sod.

We will have plenty of cold wet weather (like today) which will be enough to let the seed make soil contact and stratify it.

I kinda doubt that we have seen the last of freezing nights yet...so I would get it seeded asap!
 
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I know I sound like a "broken record" in this thread with the dormancy issues of switchgrass seed and the reasons for frost seeding...but...

I still get emails from folks who are being told that it's to early to seed switchgrass...because the seed will "rot".... huh??

Often times people just need some reassurance from people (not just me) that understand dealing with dormant seeds like switchgrass and wildlflowers.

Here are some more links mostly because I don't want anyone to just take my word for it...even though all my switchgrass has been seeded somewhere between November and March....and the pictures don't lie

If your unable to frost seed, switchgrass can be stratified by the following ( taken from this link )



Wet-chill to break dormancy:
If germination is low (less than 40 percent), seed should be wet-chilled to break the dormancy. In nature this wet-chill, called stratification, occurs naturally during the winter. If the wet-chill treatment is required, follow the procedure outlined below:
Put the seed in a cold place to be chilled before soaking.

Soak the seed in cold water for about 24 hours in plastic-mesh feed sacks.

Then remove the sacks from water and hang them in a cool place for about 24 hours to drip dry.

After draining, place the sacks in plastic garbage bags to prevent excessive drying during the chill period. Measure the temperature inside the wet seed to be sure of safe conditions. Place the outdoor sensor of an indoor/outdoor thermometer inside the bags. These units are inexpensive and can be used later for other purposes. Remove the sacks from the garbage bags during the last week of chilling to aid in the drying process. Place the sacks in a refrigerator and chill at 38-42 degrees F. for 4 weeks. Freezing the seed doesn't harm it, but it does prevent the seed from breaking dormancy. You can take seed samples at 7-day intervals during the chilling process and test them to see whether germination percentage has increased. Usually, it takes 28 days to break dormancy.

Remove seed from the refrigerator and dry it by placing it on a dry tarp less than 3 inches deep with a fan blowing over it. Dry the seed until it flows freely. Plant the chill-treated seed as soon as possible. If planting must be delayed, chill-treated seed will be safe if stored in a dry place.


a ragdoll test of germination will tell you if your seed needs to be stratified.

Sometimes you can get lucky.



"Ragdoll" test for seed germination:
Before planting, test your seed in a flower pot with soil or in a "ragdoll." A "ragdoll" is a tube of wet paper containing the seeds to be tested for germination; it is placed in a jar or plastic bag and kept in a warm place for several days. Then it is opened and the seedlings are counted as they are removed, giving you the percentage germination.
Properly used, the ragdoll test is of great value, but some suggestions will help you obtain the best results:

Use a firm paper towel such as a brown hand towel or its equivalent. The "soft," very absorbent paper toweling often used in a kitchen makes poor ragdolls. It allows roots and tops to penetrate the fiber, making seedlings difficult to remove for counting. If kitchen towels must be used, be sure to squeeze all excess water from them to prevent seed rotting. Too much water causes a lack of oxygen and the roots of seedlings (radical) will be more retarded than the top.

After the towel has been squeezed rather hard, lay the wet towel flat. Count out 100 seeds and place them on one half of the towel. Fold the towel in half and roll it into a tube. Place the tube upright in a jar or plastic bag. This position causes roots to grow down and shoots to grow up so that seedlings are more easily removed during counting. The ragdoll should be kept in a warm place, preferably on top of a water heater or refrigerator. A temperature of 80 to 85öF is best but seeds will do fine at room temperature.

Make the first count in about 4 days. Open the towel and count the seedlings as you remove them. After another 3 to 4 days, make a second count. If you had 100 seeds, the number of seedlings removed equals the percentage germination. If seeds were not counted initially, count the remaining seeds and calculate percentage germination. You should always save a small amount of any seed you plant (1/4 cup is plenty) so that, if the stand is poor, you can check germination again to be sure the problem was not bad seed. If the seed won't germinate in an ideal environment like a "ragdoll," then don't expect much success when the seed is dealing with all the hazards found in a field situation.
It is always a good idea to test the ragdoll procedure by placing a few seeds of millet or alfalfa, etc., that you know will germinate in it. If these seeds germinate well, then you know the ragdoll is working properly. If these seedlings are stunted, then the ragdoll may be too wet.




Temp to stratify

Stratification in Switchgrass Seeds

STUDIES ON THE PLASTICITY OF DORMANCY AND ON AGING IN SWITCHGRASS SEEDS

switchgrass profile

Seeding recomendations

Switchgrass info

After reading all that...you can see why I prefer to seed it as nature intended
 
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I have only a few odd areas left to seed to praire grass so I work on these an acre at a time.

I ordered 5#'s of Cave In Rock switchgrass seed from John Osenbaugh’s Prairie Seed Farms a while back.

It's gone up to $11.90 a pound!

One thing that is extremely important with switchgrass (and other NWSG) is to buy seed locally so that it is the same ecotype.

Other seed will germinate and appear to do fine but over time it will often begin to thin and die out.

Buying "cheap" seed is not a bargain in the long run and often leads to very dissapointing results.

John Osenbaugh has been growing NWSG for a lifetime near Lucas Iowa so you can be assured that the seed you plant...will be right for you if your property is in Iowa.

He does have seeds and mixes adapted for other states so give John a call and talk to him in person if possible, before ordering seed.

Here's what 5#'s looks like and what I use to seed it by hand.

5lbsswitchgrass.jpg


Seed is small and easily sown like clover seed.

Set the seeder on 1 or 2 and walk at a fast pace

Like frost seeding clover, start with the loweset setting and seed across the field one way and then turn and seed the field crossways of your previous path.

Better to have seed left over then to run out before your done...you can always go back over it. Besides...you need the exercise!

Switchgrassseed1.jpg


About 4-5# per acre seeded in Feb or March on killed sod works best.

In this case I killed the sod with roundup and used Plateau last year to provide some residual action.

Plateau can severely set back or kill switchgrass but at low levels it has worked for me to release established switchgrass or sprayed the previous year, for establishing following year seedings.

This is what the field looks like now:

Plateautreated.jpg


The nice thing about late winter seeding (if you have prepared the site by killing the sod the fall before) is that you can do it with virtually no equiment other then a cheap hand seeder like the one shown.

If you have larger acreages you can use an ATV mounted spreader (be careful to close down the seeder...or it will end up in a pile on the ground)

or you can rent a Truax no-till drill from a local county conservation board for a few bucks an acre...providing you either have or can borrow a small tractor.

Soil type is one question brought up recently...

Swithgrass prefers rich moist soil however it will grow on poorer soils escpecially if soil tests are done and fertility levels brought up.

In some cases however other natives such as Big and Little Bluestem will do better.

Little Bluestem will grow on the poorest soils such as dry clay knobs on steep hills.

It has good standabilty and is only slightly shorter then switchgrass.

I have mixed stands of switch and Little Bluestem and both are excellent cover still standing after our ice and snow storms

Switchgrass alone is much easier and less expensive to establish using herbicdes because Atrazine can be used.

Use 4 quarts per acre on either new seedings or established stands where weeds/grasses are making it difficult for the stand of switch to compete.

Burning in very late April to late May will set back cool season competition and an application of Atrazine after burning will allow the switchgrass to become stronger and able to dominate in the future.

Once well established timing the switchgrass burns for very late spring will severely set back cool season competition and keep your switchgrass robust for decades.

Burning a different portion each year is best so that some nesting areas will be left undisturbed.

Not burning is a good way to eventually lose your stand of switchgrass...
 
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Here's a couple shots of switchgrass in early April. I took the pics up close to show that there is nothing green at this point:

SwitchgrassinApril.jpg


This is a shot of some very small goldenrod sprouting up which can be very competitive with prairie grasses:

Goldenrodinswitchgrass.jpg


This is some NWSG mix:

NWSGinApril.jpg



You have the option of hitting it with roundup or waiting until late April and burning to set back the cool season competition.

A mature stand of natives has plenty of fuel but a new stand may have barely enough and may just burn around the green stuff.

In those cases I prefer to use roundup very early, or Plateau for NWSG mixes.

It's hard to beat fire though...if timed right it will set the cool seasons back long enough to allow the natives to come on strong :)
 
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Hey, those last two look familiar. :)

Here's a little different question for you. Since I have that stuff coming up right now I'm wondering what effect this unusual cold snap will have on it? Last night's low as around 18*, and then next 3 nights lows are between 22* and 16*. Seems that would qualify as a hard frost, would temps that low kill off the unwanted weeds which have already sprouted, and also knock back that grass similar to what a burn would do? If so that would be a nice little gift from Ma Nature.

I'll find out in a week or so when it warms up, so I'm going to know if you get the answer right! ;)
 
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Re: Switchgrass - prepare to burn!

Why do we need to burn switchgrass and other natives periodiclly?


In a nutshell, if we do not burn switchgrass every 3-5 years it will eventually suffucate itself and begin to dissappear altogether.

Thick thatch builds up on the soil surface and by burning we turn that thatch to ash whereupon it becomes available nutrients to the switchgrass plants.

Burning helps set back coolseason grasses and woody brush that invades the prairiegrass stands and the new switchgrass growth will flourish and the stand will prosper.

This link has great information and pics of a prairie burn: Mesic Prairie Restoration - Burning

If you've ever witnessed a prairie grass fire or worse yet went thru the harrowing expierance of having a raging switchgrass fire get away from you...and roar across a field like a runaway freight train...you know that planning is extremely important to prepare for burning your prairie.

I started out thinking that a "green" strip like this would be enough act as a fire break:

Grassfirebreak.jpg


I soon found out i couldn't be more wrong

The thatch in typical "grass" strips is just enough to let fire creep across...kinda like letting a little trickle of gasoline run towards a flame.

Thatch.jpg


In my case I do not want clover around the outside of my fields...it would only attract deer to within feet of roads and give them travel lanes far from my stands.

So I prefer to till and plant oats for a "thatch free" fire break.

Tillingfirebreak2.jpg


The oats help prevent erosion on my steep hillsides and some early spring feed at a time when deer are not vulnerable to "road poachers".

I have seen several huge switchgrass fields kept completely and safely under control during burns by discing all the way around the fields.

Leave nothing to chance! Plan on having plenty of help, backpack sprayers and if possible a tractor with plow, tiller or disc.

Remember to burn against the wind after checking weather reports.

If you would like to watch a prairie fire...partly because it's an awesome sight and to learn more about safe burning...the Mahaska County Conservation Board Nature Center located at the Russell Wildlife area 5 miles north of Oskaloosa on 200th St. off Hwy 63 will be conducting a burn on April 20th at 8:00 p.m.

Check before you go at (641)673-9327 as weather may postpone the burn.

I hope to burn mine later this month when it will have a greater affect at setting back coolseasons and invasive goldenrod.
 
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Re: Switchgrass - Burning

My nieghbors burned a 20 year old field of switchgrass the other day so I went down and took some pics.

They hired the local fire dept to do the burn and it went off without a hitch:

SwitchgrassBurn.jpg


SwitchgrassBurn1.jpg


SwitchgrassBurn2.jpg


SwitchgrassBurn3.jpg


SwitchgrassBurn4.jpg


Kinda cool against the evening sun :)

SwitchgrassBurn5.jpg


SwitchgrassBurn6.jpg


Plan on burning mine next week...weather permitting ;)
 
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Re: Switchgrass - and corn

Did you know...

that switchgrass and corn make a great combo when establishing switchgrass?

The both hate weeds, love nitrogen and are resistant to Atrazine!

If you frost seeded switchgrass this past winter, it's easy to no-till corn into your switch seeding at a moderate population.

Broadcast urea before a good rain and use up to 4 quarts of atrazine per acre and you can have food and cover while your switch is getting started.

Some would just like a screen along a roadway and adding corn the first year provides a quick first year screen.

Be careful not to use other herbicides that will kill grasses in corn...stick with atrazine and simazine (princep).

Couple closeups of my switchgrass on April 19th...no growth at all yet (for those that wonder what's coming up this time of year)

AprilSwitchgrass1.jpg


Not so much as a blade of green at any switch clump:

MidAprilSwitchgrass.jpg


Cool seasons are growing rapidly at this point but it's way to early for warm season growth:

Switchgrasscloseup-1.jpg


Burn late as possible to promote growth of native grasses and set back cool seasons.
 
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Re: Switchgrass - my burn

I burned all of my prairie grass last week and it went off without a hitch!

I tilled a fire break all the way around...some of which I planted to oats and some I just left for now...but it worked perfectly to contain the fire.

Firebreak.jpg


We just used these small torches to start the fires. I sent my son to start against the wind while I started on the opposite side with the wind.

Firestarter.jpg


We had some pretty good gusts which carried it pretty well.

Switchfire1.jpg


The cool seasons had gotten pretty green in the thin spots and didn't burn well at first...but eventually things got "going"

Switchfire2.jpg


Took a couple short videos that capture a little more of the sights and sounds of a switchgrass burn:

Swithgrass Burn 1

It gets very hot so don't think you can get to close or put it out if it gets away. I had the tractor and tiller there if I needed to get a head of it and backpack sprayers for small fires but never needed either one.

The amount of wind is a huge factor...it would cause the fire to race and roar or barely creep...be wary of it at all times!

Switchgrass Burn 2
 
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Re: Switchgrass - my burn

I had natives planted in my fields last year. I haven't visited my place hardly at all this year but had a chance to drive by on Friday, and the smaller field that was planted in prairie last year was filled in with wall to wall thistles. they were 2 ft high already. I paniced and didn't know what to do so I pulled out the pull behind atv mower and mowed the whole field. Did I make the right choice? i hope to get back there and spot spray the thistles with rounduup..it will take forever but not sure if I have options. I never found a source for plateau. Last year the fields didn't look great to me, but I was told by a DNR rep that the first year in prairie is hard to rate. I saw thistle last year in that field and spot sprayed where I could, but they took over this spring. Did I do the right thing by mowing? or should I have let them grow and spray when I could? Any advise for this prairie/native newbie? I also was told by the DNR rep to not burn the first year and wait until 2008...so burn didn't take place this year. Any advise would be appreciated...I'm a but paniced with what I saw...I'd rather have the brome back than a field of thistle.
 
Re: Switchgrass - my burn

Did I do the right thing by mowing?



First couple years that is best and yes...thistles can be a big problem at first.

Keep them clipped so they don't go to seed and later in the year clip high at 8-12".

Better to wait until after the prairie gets established to burn.

Slow process the first few years...been there, done that ;)
 
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Re: Switchgrass - after the burn

After the burn you can really notice the clumpy nature of prairie grasses:

WSGclumps.jpg


Now you can really notice those "clumps" coming to life:

prairieafterburn.jpg


Notice by burning late in the spring...the other cool seasons have not re-sprouted but the prairie has...

Prairieregrowth.jpg


The switchgrass begins to grow rapidly while the ground around it is bare. It's all about competition...set back the undesirables and give the WSG a chance to dominate.

Switchafterburn.jpg


This is a mixed NWSG patch and you can see how the trees and cedars in the far background where scorched by the hot flames. Burning is a great way to keep "things" from growing where they don't belong

Prairie2weeksafterburn.jpg


In this pic you can see some spots on the left that did not burn well and how the cool seasons are way ahead.

if one burns early in the season then you have the opposite effect of encouraging the cool seasons long before the WSG is ready to start growing.

Burn very late April or in May to set back the undersirables and encourage the prairie grasses.

Afterburn.jpg
 
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Re: Switchgrass - after the burn

Great post Paul, excellent representation of a very important point related to switchgrass. I know it has really helped my understanding...now I just need some switchgrass seed next year...
 
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Re: Switchgrass - after the burn

now I just need some switchgrass seed next year



It may change but right now Cave In Rock switchgrass seed will cost about $55 an acre...but that's a once in a lifetime expense.

The great thing about switchgrass is that with a little planning and forethought you can do it all yourself, with virtually no equipment other then a backpack or ATV sprayer and a small cheapo hand seeder.

There's nothing wrong with seeding an acre or two (or whatever one's budget will allow) each year.

Jut remember to mow in late summer, kill the sod in September, and kill it again if you missed any.

Frost seed in late winter...how easy is that? /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif
 
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Re: Switchgrass - after the burn

after doing some searching, apparently Dow has a relatively new product that is safe to spray in natives and is really tough on types of thistly so hopefully if I keep them cut, this will work in the fall. thought some of you may find this interesting and could need it, but hopefully you won't.

Milestone
 
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Re: Switchgrass - after the burn

after doing some searching, apparently Dow has a relatively new product that is safe to spray in natives and is really tough on types of thistly so hopefully if I keep them cut, this will work in the fall. thought some of you may find this interesting and could need it, but hopefully you won't.

Milestone


Good info for thistle control...I like that it is not a restricted use pesticide

Thistles are almost sure to be a problem in new prairie seedings...I had some as high as the tractor cab the second year in my native grass

I just kept them clipped and eventually the natives took over and the thistles quit coming back ;)
 
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Re: Switchgrass - after the burn

Paul,
What do you suggest if they don't get smothered. It is our 8th year and still have a big thistle problem. Any help would be appreciated. Am looking forward to trying Milestone. Is that the only option?
 
Re: Switchgrass - Thistle Control

It is our 8th year and still have a big thistle problem.



Whoah! 8 years!!! Yikes!

I would sure try the Milestone because it specifically targets thistles and you don't have to beg someone to buy a Restricted Use herbicide.

Have you burned the switch at all and I'm curious if it is a thick or thin stand?

It sounds like it has a pretty good foot hold to have lasted 8 years.


Here's some links to general noxious weed control in CRP plantings.

Stinger and Curtail are mentioned in this link for thistle control:

CRP weed control

Tordon is of course well known for Canada Thistle but that's where the "begging comes in" since it is a Restricted Use Pesticide.

Tordon and several other options are mentioned here:

Plan Now for Your Attack on CRP Weeds

The most widely used herbicides were 2,4-D and Tordon, but use of Curtail for Canada thistle control has increased.

Here are suggestions for controlling some weeds likely to be a problem in CRP:

Biennial thistles such as musk, plumeless or bull thistle: Apply 2,4-D at 1 to 1 1/2 quarts per acre when thistles are still in the rosette stage of growth. Treatment after the thistle has started to bolt is less effective. Cimarron or Cimarron Max recently has been labeled for use in CRP and provides excellent control of most biennial thistles.


Field bindweed and Canada thistle: Tordon at 1 to 2 quarts per acre provides the best long-term control, but may be cost prohibitive. Tordon at 1 to 2 pints per acre, plus 2,4-D at 1 quart per acre, is more economical, but only controls weeds for one season. Retreatment is required every year and it may take 3 to 4 years to reduce the size of established patches. Banvel at 1 to 2 quarts per acre control established plants for one year. 2,4-D is less expensive and effective than Tordon or Banvel and will suppress only top growth.

Since Milestone appears to be fairly new I can't comment on it's effectivness but it sure sounds like the ticket to me. :)
 
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Re: Switchgrass - Thistle Control

It has been burned twice and the problem areas are not in the thick stands of switch rather the "nesting seeding". They are driving me crazy and I am starting to feel like Carl Spackler is to gophers, Limb is to thistle... :)
 
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Re: Switchgrass - Thistle Control

They are driving me crazy and I am starting to feel like Carl Spackler is to gophers, Limb is to thistle...





Got it! ;)

If you try the Milestone..let us know how it works on the gophers...errr thistles!
 
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