dbltree
Super Moderator
I have never removed debris before seeding switch so unless you have something extreme it doesn't seem necessary. You might post pics or email them to me if you have doubts though. dbltree2000@yahoo.com
No doubts here. I talked to the guy yesterday and we are going to skip that part. I did have him use the bulldozer and scrape a nice little watering hole in the low spot of the land. I am thinking of planting some clover around it, maybe add a few apple trees to "pretty" it up a bit.
I know that you are a big supporter of frost seeding switch. If I go against that - and want to get the seed in now, what is your advice?
I do not have a no til drill to use, but I do have access to a brillion seeded - with the rollers on the front and back with seed in middle. Much of the bulldozing was done in march, so the ground is pretty hard packed. If I use a brillion seeder, would it be smart to disc up the ground to break it up prior to seeding?
I did spray the field with roundup last week, so the weeds that did come up should be taken care of.
Also, I have read several times on here that people will plant seed and then spray with RUP. How long after the seed is planted do you spray?
Sorry for all the questions, but trying to do this field a little better than I have done the last 2.
I know that you are a big supporter of frost seeding switch. If I go against that - and want to get the seed in now, what is your advice?
I do not have a no til drill to use, but I do have access to a brillion seeded - with the rollers on the front and back with seed in middle. Much of the bulldozing was done in march, so the ground is pretty hard packed. If I use a brillion seeder, would it be smart to disc up the ground to break it up prior to seeding?
I did spray the field with roundup last week, so the weeds that did come up should be taken care of.
Also, I have read several times on here that people will plant seed and then spray with RUP. How long after the seed is planted do you spray?
Sorry for all the questions, but trying to do this field a little better than I have done the last 2.
How many oz per acre? Big question.
I'd read the label but my gut tells me 2 months of control. I sprayed 12 oz per acre in hopes of the whole season having control of most weeds. As of now it seems fine. More herbicide will give u longer control and less herb - shorter of course. With switch, lot of guys will use 2 oz per acre. It says in label that plateau may hurt some switch from coming up. 2 oz seems fine and some folks do it up to 4 with some switch loss or hindrance. 5 oz may hurt some for sure. Mixed opinions on that. Little high for switch But ya- I'd figure couple months that plateau will be around. August u will b fine for turnips. Hotter the temps- the quicker herbicide goes by-by.
Jbohn
Well-Known Member
Anybody have experience with Outrider herbicide, I did everything by the book and I have a pile of Johnsgrass that stirred up. Outrider says it is effective on johnsongrass and no effects on Switchgrass, It salty at $500.00 for 20 OZ to spray 15 acres. I hate to have to start over next year. I sprayed 5oz plateau in June to Kill the johnsongrass got my fingers crossed but I know I will need a follow up wanted to find a safe product to not set me back any farther than I have already done. Trying to salvage this planting
impressive. My field looks nothing like this....
So you frost seeded in March - I assume it was a field that you prepped in the fall, so it was clear sod? Can you give a timeline of what you did to prep the field and then how you maintained it over the past 18 months? I am still working on a new 10 acre field and I want to get this right.
My second year field was prepped and planted last spring/early summer, but I was advised by a different group (before I found this site) to mix in indian grass and big bluestem. I believe that field mostly has weeds in it right now, but to be honest, I cannot figure out how to tell what is the good stuff versus what is all weeds.
I prepped a different field last fall and frost seeded this march. Weeds came up, but I am just cutting it at 10 inches to help control. Not expecting to see much this year - but would love for it to look like your field next year!
The big field is getting worked on now. I was trying to get it planted this year, but my son was born 10 days ago, came a little early and now my time is about gone to try to get this done. I have to figure out how to maintain and keep weeds down so it is ready for frost seeding. A timeline would be very helpful to help walk me through the steps of spraying, planting, spraying with other stuff, etc.
I started talking to a couple of local farmers to ask if I could just pay them to plant and maintain this for me - to do it right - but noone around southeast WI seems to know what switchgrass even is....
I already have 100 pounds of seed - will it be ok to sit for the rest of the year until next winter?
So you frost seeded in March - I assume it was a field that you prepped in the fall, so it was clear sod? Can you give a timeline of what you did to prep the field and then how you maintained it over the past 18 months? I am still working on a new 10 acre field and I want to get this right.
My second year field was prepped and planted last spring/early summer, but I was advised by a different group (before I found this site) to mix in indian grass and big bluestem. I believe that field mostly has weeds in it right now, but to be honest, I cannot figure out how to tell what is the good stuff versus what is all weeds.
I prepped a different field last fall and frost seeded this march. Weeds came up, but I am just cutting it at 10 inches to help control. Not expecting to see much this year - but would love for it to look like your field next year!
The big field is getting worked on now. I was trying to get it planted this year, but my son was born 10 days ago, came a little early and now my time is about gone to try to get this done. I have to figure out how to maintain and keep weeds down so it is ready for frost seeding. A timeline would be very helpful to help walk me through the steps of spraying, planting, spraying with other stuff, etc.
I started talking to a couple of local farmers to ask if I could just pay them to plant and maintain this for me - to do it right - but noone around southeast WI seems to know what switchgrass even is....
I already have 100 pounds of seed - will it be ok to sit for the rest of the year until next winter?
dbltree
Super Moderator
I don't but I would trust the label and go ahead and get the JG under control.
It is a nearly impossible feat which is why I encourage everyone to not get upset and frustrated because they can't find any native grass this time of year....as noted check later this fall. If weeds are a problem, keep clipped at 8-12" high but be aware that means you won't see switchgrass like in the posted pic this fall either.
Establishing NWSG is a painfully slow process that requires a great deal of patience the first year...control weeds by mowing or with herbicides and with few exceptions, eventually you'll notice the native grasses...usually in September....
Crimson Arrows
Well-Known Member
Good reminders for sure and was curious about a couple factors.
How resilient is switch bb etc to drought compared to say beans or clover when getting established?
Also curious Paul as to what % you think fails in NWSG plantings or with time moat all OK?
Thanks!
How resilient is switch bb etc to drought compared to say beans or clover when getting established?
Also curious Paul as to what % you think fails in NWSG plantings or with time moat all OK?
Thanks!
Nontypcl1
Member
Basically I followed the advice dbltree gave in this thread. The preparation and methods I used is all detailed throughout this thread. If you can find the time sit down and give it a good read and make some notes.
BTW, thanks Dbltree for all the info you provide on this site and others. I know I have learned a lot from it.
My planning for this field, which is only a small 2 acre chunk bordering my sanctuary, began a year before sowing the seed.
When I started this area was basically a brome and fescue ridgetop with scattered multiflora rose, poison ivy and some random hickories. Pretty much it was worthless to any wildlife.
1st thing I did was remove about 50 6-10" diameter shagbark hickories that were growing randomly throughout the area. I treated each stump with tordon after cutting them in the fall of 2010.
After removing the trees I mowed the entire area. About 2 weeks later I went back and sprayed it all with 2qts of glyphosate + 2lbs of atrazine + 2oz of oust xp per acre.
Later that winter I took a stump grinder and finished off what was left of the hickory stumps.
The following march I frost seeded CIR switch at 10lbs per acre and then sprayed another 2lbs of atrazine + 2qts of gly again to kill some of the stubborn weeds that were still lingering around.
Then I waited and waited and then waited some more. All of the sudden in August I had a field full of switch grass seedling about 10" tall. By September they had grown to 3' in some areas while some others were still pretty spotty.
Then this spring I noticed the switch already greening up on April 1st. Definitely way early because of our much warmer than normal march. Now it is standing 4-5' tall and thick as can be. I'm ready to see what it ends up looking like this fall. I jumped numerous fawn out of it last time I was out there.
dbltree
Super Moderator
The only NWSG failure I have witnessed in 20 years is a planting on low ground that was waterlogged for months and almost nothing came up and 2 years later I am reseeding it. Other then that "failures" are rare and not even worth discussing this time of year...so stop worrying Eyad...
NWSG... "prairie grass" survived for thousands of years thru all kinds of droughts...not even on the same planet as "crops" like beans and clover...
Crimson Arrows
Well-Known Member
Ha ha! Thanks Paul! Since I had my baby I worry all the time anyway, so I just threw the switch grass growth into the same worry jar
Monte did a great job with the kill and plant, it'll work, but always great to learn as much as I can while waiting and worrying
Monte did a great job with the kill and plant, it'll work, but always great to learn as much as I can while waiting and worrying
dbltree
Super Moderator
Switchgrass...where the bucks live!
A landowner drove me into a farm to show me a field he needed planted and I couldn't help but notice the beautiful stand of switchgrass as we drove in! He said however that he wondered if it was to thick for deer to use and that it often towered over his head but I assured him that there were few places more attractive to mature bucks!
When I came back with the drill I took some pics on my way in...
On flat fertile soil the switch was amazing
in part because the landowner burns every year
on the hillsides with less fertile soil it was of course not so tall
but switch hillsides are often the key to holding mature deer because they have the height advantage and quickly escape with a bound or two thru the switch and over the ridge
Bill Winke commented once that after a few years switchgrass "goes away" and I agree IF...you don't burn
If not burned at least every 2-3 years switchgrass can go from this
to this...a goldenrod infested wasteland
Blackberries also quickly take over as the prairie begins to revert to woodland
As I neared the bottom of the hill...sure enough...a beautiful buck bounded up from the switchgrass and dashed into the surrounding timber...a sight I have seen many times before and unfortunately unable to capture on camera. I almost never see other deer in switchgrass, traveling yes but not bedded but mature bucks love fairly large areas of switch as it allows them to be alone...completely and totally.
If you want the kind of switchgrass that holds big deer, burn often and plant large areas of at least 5 acres or more...it's worth the time an effort it establish and maintain, unless of course you don't like big whitetails on your property....
A landowner drove me into a farm to show me a field he needed planted and I couldn't help but notice the beautiful stand of switchgrass as we drove in! He said however that he wondered if it was to thick for deer to use and that it often towered over his head but I assured him that there were few places more attractive to mature bucks!
When I came back with the drill I took some pics on my way in...
On flat fertile soil the switch was amazing
in part because the landowner burns every year
on the hillsides with less fertile soil it was of course not so tall
but switch hillsides are often the key to holding mature deer because they have the height advantage and quickly escape with a bound or two thru the switch and over the ridge
Bill Winke commented once that after a few years switchgrass "goes away" and I agree IF...you don't burn
If not burned at least every 2-3 years switchgrass can go from this
to this...a goldenrod infested wasteland
Blackberries also quickly take over as the prairie begins to revert to woodland
As I neared the bottom of the hill...sure enough...a beautiful buck bounded up from the switchgrass and dashed into the surrounding timber...a sight I have seen many times before and unfortunately unable to capture on camera. I almost never see other deer in switchgrass, traveling yes but not bedded but mature bucks love fairly large areas of switch as it allows them to be alone...completely and totally.
If you want the kind of switchgrass that holds big deer, burn often and plant large areas of at least 5 acres or more...it's worth the time an effort it establish and maintain, unless of course you don't like big whitetails on your property....