Switchgrass

[whitetail fanatic]

Dbltree, so after the complete fire burn, and disking and tilling the top 2 to 3 inches of soil and planting we had bare dirt. Then the cool seasons grew to 2 to 5 inches tall and you are saying that some of the 4 to 5 inch tall stuff could have still been dormant when we sprayed? Or would you consider that actively growing? I guess my first thought would be that anything that was up and green after the fire and tilling would be considered actively growing, but the way you describe it, with roundup "actively growing" means something more than just simply sending up new green growth? Or not?

Thanks again

 

[dbltree]

I'm saying that all of the roots may not have sent up shoots and were laying there dormant until the soil warmed up, so while you may have killed the "green" stuff, there was more "waiting in the wings" so to speak

If the green growing grass didn't die when you sprayed it then I would say you didn't have the right mix perhaps?

if some died and more came up, then we're talking about the dormancy issues and not a herbicide problem.

 

[dbltree]

These pics show growth as of 5-28-09 from established switchgrass, the first showing "3 leaves" which we need before attempting to spray 2-4D to kill broadleaves.

The rest just show what kind of growth one should expect from established plants but new seedings may be considerablly less.

You can see who the plant sends up new shoots from the rhizomes of the mother plant

This also gives one an idea why burning helps remove the dead stubble and frees up space for new shoots to grow.

If your applying atrazine post emergence, flip back a couple pages to read Central Iowa's post on using crop oil along with atrazine to help kill emerged weeds without harming the switchgrass.

 

[Crimson Arrows]

Great post DBtree. Is this how much of the switch grass "fills" itself in? By expanding from the clumps of SG via rhizomes rather than seeds such as clover?

 

[dbltree]

Great post DBtree. Is this how much of the switch grass "fills" itself in? By expanding from the clumps of SG via rhizomes rather than seeds such as clover?

It really spreads some by both methods but the problem is when people burn to early in the spring, they encourage coolseason grasses that invade and prevent the switchgrass (or any NWSG) from spreading out.

By burning to early (or not burning at all) cool seasons come up fist and literally choke out any seed that is dropped or prevent new sprouts from spreading via rhizomes.

Burning late sets back the cool season growth at a time when the switch is "waking up" and has a chance to dominate. :way:

 

[Crimson Arrows]

Thanks. Maybe a dumb question but can you have a combination of weeds and Switch or will one take off and eventually choke the other out completely? A NRCS office told me that "mixture" will be best as quail and other game birds have trouble moving in pure switch but I have seen my highest number of roosters around switch fields!

I had mine frost seeded last year and it is up and coming but there are a host of weeds and other grasses mixed in. I didn't use Atrazine either but really couldn't for a number of reasons. I guess we shall see what year 2 brings.

 

[roadking]

Weeds in CIR Swithgrass

Last year I planted CIR and had a great stand.
This year it looks mostly like weeds.
I am unable to apply atrazine.
Should I just let it go and the switch will be fine?
Suggestions?

 

[dbltree]

Thanks. Maybe a dumb question but can you have a combination of weeds and Switch or will one take off and eventually choke the other out completely? A NRCS office told me that "mixture" will be best as quail and other game birds have trouble moving in pure switch but I have seen my highest number of roosters around switch fields!

I had mine frost seeded last year and it is up and coming but there are a host of weeds and other grasses mixed in. I didn't use Atrazine either but really couldn't for a number of reasons. I guess we shall see what year 2 brings.

The NRCS fellow is 1/2 right IMO...a mix of weeds and diverse grasses is certainly best for game birds because it provides both food and cover.

Switchgrass and weeds don't "coexist" however and one or the other, given time will eventually dominate. Switchgrass is clumpy by nature so birds can easily move through it or any NWSG...so that part is NOT true and I have flsuhed quail from mt CIR many times.

The best bet is to leave small areas of weeds and they can esily be maintained just by discing them once a year, ragweeds and such will sprout up and make great quail habitat right next to the awesome cover that switchgrass provides.

Here's the deal...we all love wildlife and we want diverse habitat for critters big and small BUT...if your piority is holding big mature whitetails then a pure, thick, dense stand of Cave IN Rock switchgrass is the ticket!

If quail is your preferred priority then Little Bluestem and Broomsedge are better NWSG options and strips of weeds, milo and soybeans will be very helpful. Another helpful hint for quail is hinge cutting small trees in and around the fields to give the overhead cover.

You can search this countries NRCS offices from coast to coast and you'll not likely hear a single man say "plant switchgrass for monster bucks"...they are programmed to encourage small game habitat largely due to Pheasants Forever's efforts.

There is no right or wrong...just what is right for you and your priorities...

 

[Crimson Arrows]

Great info as always Paul. Thank you.

 

[dbltree]

Pictures of CIR switchgrass in mid June of established switchgrass.

It's growing faster now but I always share pics to show how slowly it grows during the time period when cool seasons shoot up like shot out of a rocket!

Notice the clumpy nature of the switch (like most NWSG)

You can see why we need to burn every few years, the dead thatch builds up and covers the ground like straw!

Now just to give those who are looking over there new seedings and wondering what it is that's growing...here's a pic of foxtail.

You can see how foxtail can tend to look very much like switchgrass but the seed heads give it away. There are of course ways of telling by looking at the hairs on the leaf joint that occur on switchgrass

Identifying characters: This perennial has tufted stems with
very thick rhizomes and can reach heights of 1.5 m. Leaf
blades are glabrous except near the collar where there are
long hairs on the upper surface and shorter hairs on the margins.
These hairs continue down the sheath margins a short way
producing a V-shape appearance.

Ligules are 1-3 mm long and very dense. Golden orange at maturity, the inflorescence is a very broad panicle, 2-4 dm long with purplish tear-drop shaped spikelets. The first glume is at least half as long as the second, while the second glume is about as long as the sterile lemma.

Look for the hair at the base of the leaf

Switchgrass leaf

Stem

Clump

Roots

This is blackwell switchgrass germinating in a pot indoors that a friend shared with me. Blackwell switchgrass seed is not nearly as dormant as Cave In Rock but it is also not very dominate and tends to "fade away" in time.

CIR with periodic burning can last as long as you do...

 

[Sligh1]

Ok, I'm a slacker with no pictures BUT I can verify- if you mix atrazine with crop oil after weeds have came up- it will fry them! Just did it a week ago, great results!

 

[dbltree]

Ok, I'm a slacker with no pictures BUT I can verify- if you mix atrazine with crop oil after weeds have came up- it will fry them! Just did it a week ago, great results!

Thanks for the feedback Skip! That's the kind of stuff that really helps others no what to do. :way:

 

[ajadams]

Thats what I did when I sprayed my switch a couple weeks ago. Worked good but it was the first time I have used atrazine and I used the powder form. Made quite a mess out of my sprayer and all the tips. I think I will try the liquid form next time.

 

[Central Iowa]

Skip how much crop oil an acre did you use? I had great results with the same as well. There are a few weeds that it didn't touch though. For the most part I was impressed.

 

[Sligh1]

I used a different type of crop oil that's super concentrated. For this certain crop oil, I used 2 pints for a 60 gallon sprayer. If someone is using a "regular" crop oil, I would assume they would go much heavier.

 

[roadking]

Did the Co-op just sell you attrazine? I'm told they won't sell it to me because I don't have a license. Any advise how how to get it? I'd love to try the stuff.

 

[dbltree]

Did the Co-op just sell you attrazine? I'm told they won't sell it to me because I don't have a license. Any advise how how to get it? I'd love to try the stuff.

You do need a restricted use pesticide license to purchase atrazine or know someone who has one willing to purchase it for you.

The other option is to hire a farmer or farm elevator to do spray it for you.

Princel 4L (simazine) is an unrestricted herbicide that is not as powerful as atrazine but does work if applied at heavier rates.

Check the herbicide thread for label information...

 

[whitetail fanatic]

Central Iowa, what kind of weeds did the atrazine/crop oil not kill? I'm guessing it was grasses? Did it seem to kill everything but grasses? It seems like dbltree has mentioned before that it takes higher rates to kill grasses, is that right?

Sligh1, do you know the name or brand of the super concentrated crop oil? Does anyone know how much crop oil to use if we just have regular crop oil?

Thanks everyone! Great information!

 

[dbltree]

Does anyone know how much crop oil to use if we just have regular crop oil?

I usually use one quart per acre but the actual "safe" amount that switchgrass can tolerate may be higher, this is something we're just "testing the waters" on.

Switchgrass can take a LOT and it's very difficult to kill so I suspect that even the "hot" COC won't hurt it but who wants to take that chance.

Eventually I'll try some small test areas and see just what it will take to burn the switch but I believe it will handle anything corn can and then some...

 

[Sligh1]

My next test will be next week where I go and spray an area on the other side of the farm I couldn't get to- it's about 2 acres of established switch that I earlier sprayed with round-up and atrazine BUT the fox tail got in this spot (unlike all other areas- I must have gone too light on this spot with the atrazine). I will follow up on how it does on wicked thick fox-tail!

The rest of my switch looks pretty darn good. Thick and now between waste and chest high (this is established stuff that needed HELP!). Has a few weeds but pretty sparse. Switch seems like it should dominate and be a thick fortress of solitude for a local big boy! I think there's about 30 acres that looks really really good so with only 2 acres of concern, I can learn/experiment!