Switchgrass

[Sligh1]

I am thinking I'm done for a while on my CIR- maybe??? I had 2 areas: 1 where I interseeded last year with a drill- had some weeds to get rid of (much is foxtail). 2nd area I killed last fall, frost seeded late winter. (both were between 8 to 12 pounds per acre of seed).

I went in during warm weather and sprayed (one area I had to respray with round-up because it started to rain- got it done the next day going over it again when it was much nicer). I sprayed with 2 quarts per acre of Atrazine/Dual (Bicep II Magnum) AND I sprayed about 1&1/2 quarts to the acre of Round-up with Ammomium sulfate AND some surfactant.

QUESTION- from that description, would you suspect I am done - the next thing I'll do is BURN the areas in couple years. From that description, is there anything else I'll need to do before now and burning in few years? Anymore spraying? Thanks!

 

[dbltree]

If weeds come up despite the spraying, you need to clip them this summer but otherwise just stand back and give it some time Skip.

I checked on a switchgrass seeding that I did in the winter of 08 and this is what growth looks like on April 27th 2009

This gives one an idea that late April would be to late to think about applying any non-selective weed killers to a new switchgrass stand.

2-4D can be applied after the switchgrass has 3-4 leaves in early summer if broadleaf weeds become a problem. I have a struggle with invasive goldenrod but it's easily killed with very inexpensive 2-4D.

Newly planted switchgrass seedlings can be very difficult to identify unless they were drilled in which case one can see the rows after they germinate.

IDENTIFYING NATIVE WARM SEASON GRASSES

Evaluating a stand the first year is the most difficult job of the whole process of establishing native warm season grasses. Most of us are used to the germination of annual crops or some cool season grasses and in comparison, native warm season grasses don't perform as well. If you'll get past the expectation of immediate results though and understand that native grasses can take 2 to 3 years to become established, you can be more patient with the establishment.

Native warm season grass seedlings are sometimes difficult to find in a new planting. Most of you have probably heard before, native grasses spend their first year growing down, not up. Since the new seedlings are so small and typically don't exhibit all of the characteristics outlined you will be faced with a real challenge.

Very seldom can you evaluate a stand from the road and many times not even standing in the field. Get down on your hands and knees, part the competing grasses and look for small, spindly grass plants. Look for seedlings that don't look similar to the majority of those present. If you drilled your stand look for seedlings in a drill row but don't be fooled by foxtail or other grasses sprouted in the drill row. If possible identify seedlings by their attached seed. If not, look for some of the characteristics mentioned, but realize that those characteristics may not have yet developed in the seedlings. It is impossible to examine the ligule of a 1 inch tall grass seedling.

Looking at the pics above you can see that it would be impossible to look at the ligule and identify it as switchgrass if it were a new seeding. Established switch is a whole other story and allows us to determine growth.

Burning this time of year will not hurt native grasses and willl set back the cool seasons. The natives will grow rapidly after burning in late April or early May and by doing so, dominate the cool seasons. Don't make the mistake of burning in late March or early April and encouraging coolseason grasses by doing so.

 

[Sligh1]

Oh Great, I sprayed last Friday April 24, with Round-up. I sprayed about 35 acres which I've spent a small fortune on between seed, herbicides, mowing, etc. Do you think I just cost myself all that work, time and money by spraying it with round-up???? Oh my goodness am I feeling bummed out after reading your last post/pictures!!!!!!!!

 

[dbltree]

Oh Great, I sprayed last Friday April 24, with Round-up. I sprayed about 35 acres which I've spent a small fortune on between seed, herbicides, mowing, etc. Do you think I just cost myself all that work, time and money by spraying it with round-up???? Oh my goodness am I feeling bummed out after reading your last post/pictures!!!!!!!!

I think yours will be fine Skip but I just didn't want anyone else spraying theirs with roundup now that it's starting to greenup.

Our climate patterns are definitely changing from what it was 10-15 years when I did my first plantings and the warm season grasses are coming to life a few weeks earlier then they used to.

Keep an eye on yours and let us know how it does but I don't think the sprouts have unfurled enough to absorb the gly so have faith! :way:

 

[whitetail fanatic]

So switchgrass that has already grown at least one year is already greening up, but an area that was just frost seeded this past winter would not germinate until mid to late May correct? So would it be safe to spray new switchgrass seedings with roundup as late as May 5-10, except for in years with unusually warm weather?

 

[NovemberSunrise]

FWIW, with respects to figuring out how late is too late to spray your new switch seeding, perhaps some indoor test seedings would help? I planted a few pots with switch grass and kept it in a cool (poorly heated - closed the heat ducts), but slightly sunny room in my basement (walkout FWIW). The indoor temperatures were a bit warmer than the outdoor as one might expect. Once the indoors switch started to germinate, I knew I had only a short time left to actually spray my new plantings.

 

[Sligh1]

Oh, I was reading the earlier posts debating CP-25 vs switch, accidentally responded to that because I thought someone just posted on that....
The debate on CP-25 vs Switchgrass has gone on for years and many times through-out this thread. I have both. If I only could plant 1- it would be straight CIR switch. It holds far more wildlife including birds, deer, etc. It also stays up even in snow where much of my cp-25 is flattened. Personally, I have about 35 acres of CIR switch AND I have about 7-8 acres of CP-25. I personally think someone would be crazy to not include SOME areas of straight switchgrass.

Another problem to consider for folks planting CP-25 that contains switchgrass (from my experience)... Many folks drill it in during April, May or even June. All the seed germinates and gets going 1st year EXCEPT switchgrass in many cases. (obviously like Dbltree mentioned, recommended for winter/late spring frost seeding so it can thaw/freeze to break down tough seed coat so it germinates). SO- the 2nd year- everything else has been established for a year, grows super tall while the switch is germinating for the 1st time. My 1st CP-25 I did this and you CANNOT find one switch plant- it all got choked out because it germinated 2nd year when everything else germinated 1st spring.

My personal opinion is if you are going to do CP-25 with forbs and switchgrass, frost seed the switchgrass alone in the area in late winter if you wanted to plant the rest in the spring. Of course you could do it all at once in late winter too BUT the bottom line is getting switch in ground late winter SO it all germinates in same spring. Don't wind up like me with CP-25 containing ZERO switchgrass now because it all got out-competed being a year behind on germination

 

[dbltree]

So switchgrass that has already grown at least one year is already greening up, but an area that was just frost seeded this past winter would not germinate until mid to late May correct? So would it be safe to spray new switchgrass seedings with roundup as late as May 5-10, except for in years with unusually warm weather?

Generally the established plants are going to send up shoots before seeds germinate but I have talked with others who drilled switchgrass seed last spring and of course it didn't germinate not having been stratified. It is coming up this spring already (a year later) so I would cautious at this point.

All of this points out my reasons for killing sod the year before, then there is just no reason to have to use roundup the following spring. No matter how many times you spray roundup...weeds (not grasses) will come back unless atrazine is used!

Atrazine can be safely applied even after switchgrass has emerged although that means weeds would have emerged as well, so early spring is still best for atrazine to be effective.

Spraying roundup in spring is tricky because even all cool season grasses have not broken dormancy and may still appear after an early spring application of gly.

Kill it right in the fall and then you don't have to worry about it...

 

[whitetail fanatic]

quote by dbltree: "All of this points out my reasons for killing sod the year before, then there is just no reason to have to use roundup the following spring."

Yeah, that's what we are going to do to prepare for next winter's seeding, but this spring, the first weekend in April, we tilled and planted CIR on ground with no prior preparation. The grass was burned in late March to get rid of the surface trash. Now I realize that's about as bad as it gets, but at the time I didn't know any better. So now I feel like I have to hit it at least once this spring with roundup or we will have nothing but cool season grass. Also, hope the seed was planted early enough to germinate this year. Here in southern WI, our weather is a little cooler than southern IA, so I hope we get enough wet/chill to make it germinate. So the question is, do you think we would still be safe spraying this area w/roundup sometime during the next 5 to 10 days? The cool season grass is now only about 3-4" tall because the fire and tilling set it back a little. I know you said your friend's switchgrass seed was germinating already, but if that's southern IA, would it be a week or so later here in Southern WI? We plan on using atrazine too because I know on this tilled ground the weeds would come back like crazy!

thanks

 

[dbltree]

I guess you have nothing to lose but I think I wouldn't wait much longer. If the coolseasons are 3-4" high...nuke em!:way:

 

[ajadams]

I have some switch that I seeded last year that had a few weeds but I just mowed it a few times and could see a little switch getting started. This spring I have lots of weeds coming in fast and are starting to get up to a foot tall. I was wondering if I could spray them with 2-4d or will that hurt my switch just coming out of the ground, or should I just mow for now and maybe spray later this summer when the switch is growing better.

Thanks AJ

 

[dbltree]

I have some switch that I seeded last year that had a few weeds but I just mowed it a few times and could see a little switch getting started. This spring I have lots of weeds coming in fast and are starting to get up to a foot tall. I was wondering if I could spray them with 2-4d or will that hurt my switch just coming out of the ground, or should I just mow for now and maybe spray later this summer when the switch is growing better.

Thanks AJ

You need to wait until the switchgrass has 3-4 leaves before spraying with 2-4D then go ahead and nuke em!

 

[Sligh1]

What's the harm of 2-4D if there's not 3-4 leaves?

Last year I sprayed some round-up mixed with 2-4D BEFORE some seed germinated and some other areas before the existing plants sprouted up.

Thanks!

 

[roadking]

I have small stands of swithgrass scattered throughout my property ranging from 1-5 acres.
I also have CP-25 as well in addition to my corn, bean & clover plots.
I believe the best thing to do is to diversify your cover and food souces.

 

[roadking]

The best switchgrass stands for me have been by using the following plan.
-Mow area mid August
-Spray with RU late Sept.
-Plant in spring with no-till Truax, or similar, drill. Can rent from PF for a nominal fee.
-Spray again with RU 3-5 days after planting.
-Mow approx. 3 times during the first year just above the height of the switchgrass to
keep the weeds in check.

This method has worked great the last 3 years.

 

[whitetail fanatic]

Is there any way to identify switchgrass seedlings (the first year) shortly after the seed germinates when it is only 1" to 3" tall? I'm trying to figure if anything has sprouted yet or if it's all weeds or other grasses. Ours was broadcasted, so no way to see it coming up in rows like with a drill.

dbltree, do you know how tall the CIR is that you said someone saw already sprouting from seeds that was planted last year (and did not sprout until now)?

thanks

 

[roadking]

It's pretty easy for me to identify the switch since I drill all mine and you can see the rows.
I probably wouldn't know what to look for if I B-cast it.
The more you mow the better weed control you will have but you obviously have to identify the swithgrass so you know how high to adjust your mower.
Sorry, I"m not much help on this one.

 

[cpichan]

I have planted into sod before and had very good stands by putting atrazine on at a rate of 4 lbs per acre. 2 lbs will take care of broadleaves but it takes 4 lbs for the grasses. The atrazine can be put on before or after planting.
I sprayed the day after planting and then I was sure that the switch hadn't sprouted. I used 2 quarts of roundup and 4 lbs of atrazine. The residue made a good multch and the cost was about the same as mowing several times. I planted with a haybuster no-till drill and the switch was very evident in the rows. I also planted some with a john deer grain drill, while the ground was still froze and even though the seed was just deposited on top of the ground you could still see the rows, but it seemed like the no-tilled came up thicker.
The seed I planted was 2 years old and I think that helped. I planted some in a flat in the winter and its germination was very good. It was a lot easier to know what I was going to get comming up that to guess. Kind of takes the fun out of it,

 

[dbltree]

I have planted into sod before and had very good stands by putting atrazine on at a rate of 4 lbs per acre. 2 lbs will take care of broadleaves but it takes 4 lbs for the grasses. The atrazine can be put on before or after planting.
I sprayed the day after planting and then I was sure that the switch hadn't sprouted. I used 2 quarts of roundup and 4 lbs of atrazine. The residue made a good multch and the cost was about the same as mowing several times. I planted with a haybuster no-till drill and the switch was very evident in the rows. I also planted some with a john deer grain drill, while the ground was still froze and even though the seed was just deposited on top of the ground you could still see the rows, but it seemed like the no-tilled came up thicker.
The seed I planted was 2 years old and I think that helped. I planted some in a flat in the winter and its germination was very good. It was a lot easier to know what I was going to get comming up that to guess. Kind of takes the fun out of it,

Now there's an example of everything done right! :way:

do you know how tall the CIR is that you said someone saw already sprouting from seeds that was planted last year (and did not sprout until now)?

I think 1-2" now but I'm only going by his description and every thing I have seen is growing from exisiting "mother" plants.

Pretty tough when broadcasting to tell for sure...no biggie when applying only atrazine but personally I wouldn't want to risk roundup at this stage of the game...

 

[dbltree]

Central Iowa called to mention that if one adds crop oil to atrazine it will kille a wide array of broadleaf weeds post emergence, so for future reference this mix would be safer then roundup/atrazine if there is concern that switchgrass may be sprouting.

Here's some pics of new switch growth on May 12th