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Switchgrass

[QUOTECentral Iowa, what kind of weeds did the atrazine/crop oil not kill? I'm guessing it was grasses? Did it seem to kill everything but grasses? It seems like dbltree has mentioned before that it takes higher rates to kill grasses, is that right?][/QUOTE]
No they are broadleaves and to be honest I don't know what they are. I had a few patches of them that I will spray with 2,4-D a soon as I can.
 
The name of the crop oil I used, I can't quite remember. I got another kind of crop oil today that is pretty potent, it's 1 pint to acre roughly. The name of that crop oil was Destiny.

The co-op will tell you whether you are buying "regular" crop oil OR super concentrated stuff. Either way, just read the label for application rates. Other guys can tell you rates they applied, I believe they went HEAVY on the crop oil. I went about 1&1/2 pints the the acre when I could have used 1 pint. I think others are going more potent (depends on the type of crop oil too).

Sprayed foxtail tonight on a bigger patch where it was coming in THICK. I'll follow up in couple weeks to let you know if it friend Foxtail or not.
 
OK, so i went to check my switch that was frost seeded last spring over corn stubble. There was a ton of foxtail last year and per Doubletree suggestion I clipped it all as I had no access to atrazine. I will have to find the pics I posted on here from last summer.

In any case, I noticed yesterday A LOT of switch and ZERO FOXTAIL!!! I wish I had my camera. Now, if foxtail was there, will it come on later this summer or will the switch keep it at bay. Maybe it is to early to get excited about he reduction in FT? There was a good amount of ragweed but that was about it. Just thought I'd see what you all thought. It is a second year stand.
 
Keep the foxtail trimmed and in time the switch will take over.
Just mow above the switch or mow the very top off to keep sunlight to the switch. There will probably always be a little FT but that's OK.
 
Foxtail is an annual that comes up with a vengeance when we disturb the soil or even kill the sod and "release" the foxtail seed.

Once you stop either of those activities the foxtail will stop re-appearing. 2nd year switchgras should be well on it's way and hopefully not need anymore clippings after the first one.

If broadleaves become a problem, hit them 1-3 quarts of 2-4D (no license needed...;) )
 
Time for an update on our 2.6 acre planting. See my previous posts, especially post #321 of this thread (posted on 5-30-09) for some history on this planting of CIR SG. Basically, a quick overview of what I did is this: Planting date was April 4, 2009. Site was mature cool season grass with no preparation prior to April 2009, burned with fire in early April 2009 to get rid of old dead surface vegetation, top 2" disked and then tilled with 6' rotary tiller, cultipacked, seed "dropped" onto ground with old grain drill, and cultipacked again. Sprayed with a mix of glyphosate and atrazine on May 11, 2009. Mix was heavy with atrazine and maybe a little too light with glyphosate. The cool season grasses that were still a little green almost 3 weeks after we sprayed with glyphosate/atrazine eventually died out. It took 4 weeks or more for some of the mature cool season grasses to completely turn brown after spraying on May 11. We might have been a little too light on the glyphosate in the mix. There were a few small strips that were obviously missed by the spraying on the 11th, so I spot sprayed them about 2 weeks later, probably around the 25th of May. Most of the CIR must have been sprouted by the 25th because in those spots that I spot sprayed there is nothing green now and just outside those areas it's full of switchgrass. Around the 28th of May was when I first noticed what I was sure was switchgrass seedlings just starting to come up, but like I said, most of it must have been just barely up a few days to a week before that when I did the spot spraying. I will just frost seed those small spots that I spot sprayed and killed the good stuff in later this winter with CIR seed. The small seedlings that I was hoping were CIR are now 10 to 12 inches tall. I believe it is CIR, I hope dbltree can confirm that from the pictures I have emailed to him. Dbltree, could you please post the pictures in this post for everyone to see? Thanks. (I kept getting an error when I tried to upload the picutres here.) Does CIR switchgrass grow multiple shoots from the base like you can see in the picutres when it is only 5 to 6 weeks old? If it is switchgrass, then our plot is almost 100% switchgrass with very few weeds. There are a few milk weeds and goldenrod in the plot, and a very few cool season grasses that the glyphosate/atrazine didn't quite get in May, but not many as you can see in the closeup photos. Also notice in a couple of the photos, it appears that more CIR is still germinating, or has germinated long after the majority of the seeds. Most of the CIR is now 10 to 12 inches tall, but there are some that are only 1 to 2 inches tall, and more that is 3 to 5 inches tall. There is one photo with a small stone I placed (in the lower-center part of the picture) in between 2 small seedlings that sprouted long after the majority of the seeds. That stone is only about 2 inches across, and the 2 seedlings next to it are about that height as you can see. The one photo shows an overall view of our planting, the switchgrass is the long strip that takes up most of the middle part of the photo. All the photos were taken on June 28, 2009.


Also, an update on my CIR SG seed germination experiment that I mentioned in one of my last posts. I have taken seeds out of the wet-chill from the refrigerator from each of the last 5 weeks and nothing is germinating yet, so I'm assuming it needs longer than that to "cold stratify". I have plenty more seed that I put into the wet-chill of the refrig on May 24 to continue this on a weekly basis to see how many weeks of wet chill it takes before I get a good germination rate. As I posted before, our CIR seed was almost 100% dormant, which is normal I guess. I will keep you all posted on how that goes.

Another thing, I learned a hard lesson about burning last weekend. I am preparing another 4.3 acres to frost seed CIR next winter and a couple weeks ago I sprayed it for the first time. I wanted to get rid of the surface trash, so I mowed the whole area. That left about an inch of dead vegetation in most areas, and I decided I was going to burn the area to get rid of it. The whole perimeter was 3 to 4 foot tall green grass and weeds, and I didn't even think about using a fire break, as I always do in April when everything is brown and dead from the previous season's growth. Anyway, it didn't take long and the fire was creeping through the dead vegetation near the ground under all the green vegetation, outside the area I wanted to burn. To make a long story short, I had to call 911 to have the local fire department come and put it out. After that, I made my fire break around the perimeter by plowing with our 2 bottom plow and burned the rest without any problems. What I plan on doing now is waiting for things to green back up and spray with glyphosate once more, and then just broadcast dwarf essex rape seed in there for a fall/winter food plot. The rape seed will germinate and grow just by broadcasting without any surface tilling, which I want to avoid for seeding the CIR next winter. Deer in our area will pretty much "destroy" the rape by mid to late winter and there will be mostly bare ground for frost seeding the CIR SG. If it works like I plan, the area will still be put to good use the rest of this summer and fall and attract deer and turkeys because of the rape, and I will have a good situation for frost seeding the CIR next winter.

Switch4.jpg


Switch1-1.jpg


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I have taken seeds out of the wet-chill from the refrigerator from each of the last 5 weeks and nothing is germinating yet, so I'm assuming it needs longer than that to "cold stratify". I have plenty more seed that I put into the wet-chill of the refrig on May 24 to continue this on a weekly basis to see how many weeks of wet chill it takes before I get a good germination rate. As I posted before, our CIR seed was almost 100% dormant, which is normal I guess. I will keep you all posted on how that goes.

Thanks for sharing the great pics and your resluts on dormancy issues. Switchgrass seed dormancy varies widely and depends on many many factors.

The most dormant seed is harvested in the fall and then planted the folowing spring, whereas if it's keep for a year it is much less dormant.

Winter planting of course resolves any dormancy issues but there are those who get luck and have some germinate right out of the bag in a May planting so therfore swear there are no issues.

I suspect yours will thicken up next spring as dormant seed stratifies this winter and then germinates next spring.

Here are some more pics sent in by another friend of early spring planted Cave In Rock switchgrass, drilled on soils treated with atrazine and princep.

Great pics that wil help others identify emerging switch in teh future.

May 19th

May19.jpg


June 7th

June7.jpg


June72.jpg


June 28th

June28.jpg


June282.jpg


This is winter seeded Blackwell switchgrass seeded on a farm in southern Ill, a little thick perhaps also treated with atrazine and doing wonderfully!

FarmpicslateJune2009013.jpg


Blackwell is a much shorter and less long lived switchgrass but it is less dormant and the seed less expensive.

This is some of my established CIR on June 24th already showing seed heads

6-24-09Switchgrass.jpg


LateJuneswitchgrass.jpg


Thanks to everyone who contributes pictures and planting information that helps others in their quest to establish switchgrass on their land...:way:
 
Thank you dbltree. I wanted to add that even though our plot turned out OK doing it the way we did, I would not recommend doing it that way. Do it the way dbltree recommends on this thread and you will have a lot less worries and problems and a much better stand of SG if you follow his instructions. If I could redo this, I would have waited and prepared the site this year and frost seeded next winter like we are doing with the next 4.3 acres, which I am preparing now.
 
Nearly 15 years ago I did major switchgrass seeding and tree planting, and doing so led to an unexpected result where two overlapped.

I had of course killed ALL the sod the fall before and winter seeded the switchgrass well ahead of the tree planting, so no surprise that I planted a little to far into the area where the trees eventually would end up being planted.

The tree plantings were sprayed with Oust herbicide and weed control was perfect! No other herbicide impresses me with such awesome residual effect with the exception of atrazine applied at higher rates.

This is what the switchgrass looked like in the rows band sprayed with Oust the first fall!

771Switch_in_Oust_Treated_Areas.jpg


Where I had not used any herbicide there was not a switch plant to be seen the first year, held back by weed growth and clipping.

At the time both atrazine and Oust were restricted use pesticides and Oust was extremely expensive and only available in large containers costing $600-700, so buying more was out of the question for me.

Years passed by and I found a source for Oust XP (Townsend Chemical) who would sell it by the ounce and since it was not restricted in other states, I had it shipped to a friend and then back to me so I could use it on tree plantings again.

Once again the fact that switchgrass and big bluestem are impervious to Oust XP became apparent as I sprayed new tree plantings this spring where switch and big blue existed to some extent.

It's a little difficult to see in these pics, but the switchgrass plants are thriving in the band sprayed areas

SwitchgrassinOusttreatedarea.jpg


SwitchgrasstreatedwithOust.jpg


Oust is now down to $5.50 an ounce and one needs 1-4 ounces per acre and at the moment is no longer restricted in Iowa making it more affordable and easier to obtain then atrazine.

SwitchgrassafterOust.jpg


Switchgrass just does not compete well with other plants when it's young, but released from that and given the freedom to grow it will flourish!

These pics are from a friends place where the exact same thing occured as happend to me 15 years ago. I broadcasted the switch seed in Febuary and again, seeded into an area where trees ended up being planted a few months later.

Oust has long acting residual effects and I took these pics while mowing in the tree planting the other day.

Switchgrass.jpg



I had mowed this a few weeks earlier but you can see the switch plants in the narrow band sprayed area

Switch1-2.jpg


Oust is NOT labeled for switchgrass so I'm going to test some different rates and see how new seedings handle it and release some areas that have become overgrown with goldenrod and blackberries.

Oust will kill most plants (including trees) when sprayed post emergence so it's not something one wants to spray after switchgrass emerges. Most of my tree planting sprayings where done in late April to early May when switch may have been growing but I wasn't aware of it.

So far anything I have sprayed Oust on post emergence has...died...;)

I frost seeded this switchgrass in a waterway last year so this is second year growth and you can really see the brome on either side, already gone to seed while the switch is lush and green in the middle of July!

Switch2-2.jpg


Situations like these however are difficult to keep the brome from creeping back in and will require burning and some heribide use along the edges .

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I tilled the rows between the trees in a tree planting where switchgrass existed, waited for grass and weeds to emerge and then nuked it all with roundup.

I went back yesterday to till it an plant it and found it full of switchgrass!

Switchaftertillandroundup.jpg


Roundup will sure kill switchgrass but apparantly it had not emerged yet? Dunno, but it sure seemed to be doing fine and I'm sure that re-tilling didn't hurt it much...

Switchafterroundup-1.jpg


When I kill some sod this fall to prepare for frost seeding switchgrass I'll use some Oust also at that time to take advantage of it's strong residual effects and make certain that it does not effect the germinating switchgrass in anyway.....stay tuned...;)
 
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FYI...
I sprayed about 3 acres of switchgrass that contained a lot of foxtail about 2 weeks ago. I sprayed about 2 quarts of Atrazine + crop oil PER ACRE. I went back yesterday and drove by it with the tractor. It does not look like ANY of the foxtail died. Not sure if the foxtail is Atrazine resistent at this stage, even with lots of crop oil BUT unless I am mistaken, didn't do anything on this area I sprayed.
 
FYI...
I sprayed about 3 acres of switchgrass that contained a lot of foxtail about 2 weeks ago. I sprayed about 2 quarts of Atrazine + crop oil PER ACRE. I went back yesterday and drove by it with the tractor. It does not look like ANY of the foxtail died. Not sure if the foxtail is Atrazine resistent at this stage, even with lots of crop oil BUT unless I am mistaken, didn't do anything on this area I sprayed.

I'm not sure what weeds/grasses are affected by the atrazine/crop oil combo, but apparently foxtail at this stage is not one of them?

Thanks for the update Skip...
 
I clipped mine last year and we haven't seen any at all this summer. I'll wait and see if it comes back but clipping per DBtree advice worked great. Shouldn't atrazine kill Foxtail post emergence?
 
There is a slight chance I could be mistaken. The only identifying factor the "foxtail" DID NOT have was the seed tassel on the top, the "fox tail". I COULD be wrong and it's possible it is not foxtail. If some time goes by and I realize I was wrong and it was not foxtail, I'll follow up.
Atrazine "Post Imergent" is a tougher cookie to discuss - most folks experience, knowledge, etc is PRE-IMERGENT. I "THOUGHT" I would have a good chance if I combined Crop Oil with it to help kill as a post-imergent BUT it seems so far to work super well on some things and not as good on things like Foxtail. Some other types of weed grasses AND broadleaves were FRIED. More to come if I am mistaken on my foxtail ID. :)
 
Skip, I have experienced the same thing most everything it kills but a few type of broad leaves and grass weeds it doesn't. I need to get better at identifying weeds. I went back a week and a half ago and hit the broad leaves that made it with 24D.
 
First time posting here, gotta say nice right up on the switchgrass! Lots of good info.

I'm currently trying to establish some 1st yr SG and after reading the posts I was wondering if SG is the only plant to have "white hairs" where the leaves meet the stem? I have alot of plants that do and I'm trying to fiqure if I'm looking at weeds or SG? I've mowed it twice since I planted in May and sprayed Atrazine once but only a qt for 1 1/2 ac.

Any help would be appreciated.
 
First time posting here, gotta say nice right up on the switchgrass! Lots of good info.

I'm currently trying to establish some 1st yr SG and after reading the posts I was wondering if SG is the only plant to have "white hairs" where the leaves meet the stem? I have alot of plants that do and I'm trying to fiqure if I'm looking at weeds or SG? I've mowed it twice since I planted in May and sprayed Atrazine once but only a qt for 1 1/2 ac.

Any help would be appreciated.

I can't say that it is the only plant but most weeds like foxtail don't have those typical white hairs.

If you can, you might take some pics and email them to me at dbltree2000@yahoo.com

It's tough until they put on seedheads and that's tough to do when we mow them.

Here's a pic I took today of some 2nd yr CIR switch to show how upright and slender the leaves are if that helps any at all.

CIR7-20.jpg
 
It would be highly unlikely for it to be a foot tall already after 2 months wouldn't it?
Does SG have a purple stem near the dirt?
I'll send you some pics later today dbltree...thanks!
 
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dbltree, is it possible for first year CIR SG to be putting out seed heads already and if so, does it continue getting taller even after it seeds out? Mine first year plants are only about 18" tall and I think some of it is putting out seed heads. I have to look closer sometime to make sure, but I don't have many weeds and I'm pretty sure it's SG I was looking at briefly the other day.

Schweg2, most of my first year CIR SG is 12 to 18 inches tall after about 2 months of growth, and yes, it has a purple color at the bases. We have good we control so there isn't hardly any competition and no need for mowing. Mine has multiple shoots growing from the bases, I guess I didn't not expect that this early in the first year. You might want to look at the pictures in my last post on July 2, 2009, post #348 in this thread. There are some close up photos that show the bases pretty good. Those photos were taken on June 28 and now it's quite a bit taller. The overall photo where you can see lots of bare ground, if you were standing ther now you would not see hardly any bare ground. The SG has gotten tall and thick enough to "hide" the ground. I will try to get some more photos soon.
 
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You bet...switch is putting on seed heads right now but growth is not like it should be with the cool wet weather around here. Switch loves hot humid weather and this has been one of the coolest in along time... :rolleyes:
 
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