Switchgrass

[locust]

Re: Switchgrass - August

yes, I was trying to be very careful to only spray the thistle, but when they were so thick, my concentration turned to "get it done" in several circumstances and I'm sure I oversprayed in many spots. Admittedly, I did use a high concentration of the tordon 22k, so maybe at lower levels, it would work better, but I still love the milestone. I didn't have many chances to get down to my place, so when I mixed it I mixed it knowing I'd get a kill and may have overdone it. I agree, can't wait for a spring burn, I hope I can pull one together next year. I'm officially addicted.

 

[nannyslayer]

Re: Switchgrass - August

Just out of curiosity, what did you have in your sprayer before the tordon? I just can't believe that the tordon killed grass, unless you had an extreme rate in it.

 

[Fishbonker]

Re: Switchgrass - August

I've had 22K burn grasses pretty bad around thistles at 1 ounce to the gallon, but it killed the thistle dead. The grases looked pretty bad for a while but they came back.

Of course you havta remember, thistles are public enemy #1 around here with MFR being #2 and cockelburs a very close #3, so when I spray a thistle, I REALLY spray a thistle. Oh yeah, horse nettels get dishonorable mention.

The 'Bonker

 

[Tibbs]

Re: Switchgrass - August

Hello,
First I would like to introduce myself. I am a new member as of 5 minutes ago. I live in Michigan. Sorry for just jumping in but after seeing how long this thread was I decided to jump to the end and ask a question about switch grass. Its obviuse that people from Iwoa know more about SG than Michiganders. This spring I planted 8 acres of switch grass. I planted at about 8 # per acre and used atrazene. As of today - 3 months later most of the grass is over 40 inches tall and seeded out with no weeds. _its unbeleivably thick and I know it will only get thicker next year. Is is possible that a stand of cave in rock grass can be too thick for the deer to use? I have heard both good and bad things about a thick stand, Anyone who has experience about this topic and would be willing to share any thoughts I would greatly appreciate it.
Thank you,

 

[JNRBRONC]

Re: Switchgrass - August

Welcome Tibbs!

I don't think SG can be too thick. Being thick, it will supress weeds better, so you will have less management issues. A thick stand will make the deer stick to trails instead of wandering aimlessly around the field. You can always mow trails to "guide" the deer through the SG.

 

[dbltree]

Re: Switchgrass - August

This spring I planted 8 acres of switch grass. I planted at about 8 # per acre and used atrazene. As of today - 3 months later most of the grass is over 40 inches tall and seeded out with no weeds. _its unbeleivably thick and I know it will only get thicker next year. Is is possible that a stand of cave in rock grass can be too thick for the deer to use?

Welcome and thanks for adding to this thread...it's how we all learn from each other

Sounds like you did all the right things and you have a great stand going!

Perhaps you can add some pictures eventually.

As Bronc mentioned...no such thing as "too thick for deer"...for nesting birds...yes...they like a little more open "clumpy" habitat that you get with a NWSG mix.

For bedding and winter cover though, a thick stand of switchgrass is the ticket for both deer and birds

 

[jflournoy]

Re: Switchgrass - August

I just read through this entire thread - GOOD STUFF! I'm not in Iowa, I'm in southeast Ohio, but I've been a lurker at this forum for a few years now. I believe this is my first time posting.

Last year I purchased a 22 acre property that is about half/half woods and meadow. In the first year I have already started some pretty major improvements on the meadow section of the property. I've planted 30 apple trees of about 8 different varieties, primarily disease-resistant ones. I planted about half a dozen hybrid (fast-producing) oaks, and roughly 3-4 acres of food plots consisting of the following plants, although not all mixed together, of course: 2 kinds of red clover, 2 kinds of white clover, 2 kinds of alfalfa, peredovik sunflowers, soybeans, 2 kinds of forage chicory, winter wheat, winter rye, oats, durana clover, alsike clover, bonar forage rape, dwarf essex rape, purple top turnips, tyfon forage rape. My deer have plenty to eat! That is not the issue. The issue is that there is not much bedding cover on my land, and therefore the deer that I feed all year are at greater risk of being killed on neighboring properties as they travel back and forth from bed to food. There are a lot of deer that travel "through" my place, but very few that use it as a primary bedding area year round.

There are a fair number of 3.5 year old bucks around, and a handful of 4.5 year olds that I've gotten pictures of, and I'd like to give them all a better chance to get an extra year or two on them, especially the 3.5 year olds. As it is now, several of the neighboring properties get hunted pretty hard during shotgun season, when everyone is putting on drives. Two of the good bucks I've been feeding all year with my food plots have already been killed this season within a mile of my place. The only gun hunting that takes place on my property is maybe once or twice during the season, I take my 10-year old daughter out to try for a deer. Otherwise, I don't see any reason that several acres of mature switchgrass stand couldn't serve as a good "sanctuary" for deer during the gun season, not to mention all year round.

I've got trail camera photos of at least 2 dozen bucks on my place, but I think no more than half a dozen of them bed here (max, and only one of them is a "mature" buck), and those are all on one small, thick hillside that is regeneration from a timber-thinning operation before I bought the land (10+ years ago). There are a few things I can do to improve the bedding habitat in the woods, but in my opinion there is a LOT that I can do to improve the bedding habitat in the fields, and that is why I am very excited about switchgrass after reading through this thread.

First question is, should Cave-In-Rock do well in southeast Ohio? We get good moisture and are moderately rolling, not much "prairie" overall, but there is some in the valley where I'm at, and specifically on my property. My property is bordered by probably 400-500 acres of almost solid woods which is a mixture of different woods-type habitats, and there are a lot of deer.

Second question is, how OFTEN does mature switchgrass stand need to be burned? Maybe that was addressed in this thread somewhere else, but I didn't see it.

Third question: What about "Miscanthus" as a thick grassy-vegetation for creating bedding areas and security cover? I came across it while I was looking on Google Images for more pictures of Cave-In-Rock switchgrass. There were several web sites that had some comparisons of Miscanthus versus switchgrass for purposes of growing for biomass "fuel". The comparisons there showed Miscanthus greatly superior in regards to the amount of biomass it produced as compared to switchgrass. I don't have a clue how that relates to it's suitability with regards to wildlife habitat, though, so I would be very interested to hear any comments some here have or experience with regards to Miscanthus.

Last thing, and this is just a comment....We don't have any wild quail or wild pheasants in this area, so my primary target for planting switchgrass is to make deer habitat.

I look forward to your comments.

Joshua

p.s. I'm posting a few pictures below so you can see a bit of what the property looks like.

 

[nannyslayer]

Re: Switchgrass - August

Jf, you an awesome start to a whitetail sancuary. I see no reason why the switch would not work in your area. What kind of soils do you have, would be my first question. You stated before that you get plenty of moisture, so there is a key element. Dbltree can probably answer more of your questions better than I can, regaurding switch grass.

As for burning, every 3 years seems to work down here is southern IA.

Nice looking property, and good looking buck.

 

[dbltree]

Re: Switchgrass - August

Beautiful property Joshua...welcome to IW!

Most of the open areas across the US at one time had some species of prairiegrass, although CIR is more native to this area. There are other varieties that may do better in your area and it might pay to contact your NRCS office to see if they can tell you anything.

Cave In Rock is mentioned in this switchgrass planting info from Virginia which is even further east of you.

As mentioned burn every 3-5 years and prepare for it when planning and planting your switchgrass fields. It's critical in maintaining any prairiegrass stand long term.

You'll never regret establishing a good stand of switchgrass for deer bedding cover!

 

[dbltree]

Maybe you should write a book

I'm thinking maybe I already have!

I know the switchgrass thread has become long and confusing...I need to repost some type of "instruction manual" perhaps?

The best way to deal with switchgrass plantings is to plan ahead and start in the fall by mowing in late August, killing the sod in Septemeber with RUP and then broadcasting or drilling the seed onto frozen ground in late Feb. or early March.

Switchgrass seed is dormant and needs to be stratified by wet chill of cold wet weather in typical of late winter. If you drill it like normal "crops" in April/May it most likely will not germinate until the following spring.

If you decide you still want to pursue spring planting in 08 then you can burn as early as possible, spray the new growth ASAP and drill the seed into the sod within days of spraying.

Hopefully you can rent a no-till drill from your local NRCS or Pheasants Forever chapter but I have used a Truax drill with conventional coulters and it worked just fine on killed sod. DONOT till the ground!!!

You really only need to scratch the surface so that the seed makes soil contact...it really doesn't need to be covered like typical grain crops.

Just be aware that there is a 80-90% chance that your switchgrass seed will not germinate until early summer of 09 by planting this spring after warm up. You will have plenty of weeds and grasses that you may think is switchgrass and no doubt a few straggler plants will come up...but it will take 3 years before you see what you hoping for.

If you buy stratfied seed then it will have a higher germination rate but switchgrass seed is already $14-16.00 a # so adding additional costs can make it very very expensive right now.

As for erosion...I have very very HEL that can end up with a gully 3 feet deep over night...but if I don't till it...just kill the sod and drill into it...it has never ever eroded. Even the gullies themselves didn't was when I seeded them using this method, never eroded. The roots from the killed sod will remain and hold the soil in all but the steepest ground until new sod forms.

Just a side note...I noticed our switchgrass thread has been read "around the world"
The link doesn't work but the this thread was mentioned in this thread Some neat pictures as well...switchgrass is great cover for deer from Virginia to Kansas and all points in between!

 

[dbltree]

Would it be wise to purchase the seed now with all this bio-fuel talk?

I really don't see it getting any cheaper but that's the $64 ?? of course. You might check around but I'm thinking it's going no where but up...

 

[SDWC]

GREAT STUFF. FIRST TIME POSTING. I WAS LOOKING FOR SOME INFORMATION ON SWITCHGRASS AND LOOKS LIKE I HAVE WON THE LOTTERY. MY HUNTING GROUND IS IN SOUTHEAST IL. I BULLDOZED ONE ACRE OF TIMBER, REMOVING ALL STUMPS EVERYTHING, RIGHT DOWN TO BARE DIRT LAST FEB. I THEN BROADCAST SEVEN LBS OF CAVE IN THE ROCK SWITHGRASS. AS A COMPLETE ROOKIE I DIDN'T DO ANYTING ELSE. NO WEED CONTROL OF ANY KIND(STUPID). AS OF THIS PAST OCT. THE WEEDS ARE 3' TALL. ON A 1/4 OF THE PLOT THERE IS A GRASS THAT LOOKS LIKE SWITCHGRASS ABOUT 30" TALL. IS THAT POSSIBLE? SINCE I HAVE NEVER SEEN SWITCHGRASS UP CLOSE I CANT TELL. MY BIGGEST CONCERN IS THAT BY LETTING THE WEEDS GET THAT FAR OUT OF CONTROL IN THE FIRST YEAR OF PLANTING WILL THE SWITCHGRASS SURVIVE. THIS SPRING I AM GOING TO SPRAY 2QTS ATRAZINE AROUND 1ST WEEK IN APRIL AND 1PT 24D WHEN THINGS START TO GREEN UP. THIS PLOT IS GOING TO BE A BEDDING GROUND FOR DEER. ANY AND ALL HELP WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECIATED.

THANK YOU!

 

[dbltree]

Originally Posted By: SDBC
GREAT STUFF. FIRST TIME POSTING. I WAS LOOKING FOR SOME INFORMATION ON SWITCHGRASS AND LOOKS LIKE I HAVE WON THE LOTTERY. MY HUNTING GROUND IS IN SOUTHEAST IL. I BULLDOZED ONE ACRE OF TIMBER, REMOVING ALL STUMPS EVERYTHING, RIGHT DOWN TO BARE DIRT LAST FEB. I THEN BROADCAST SEVEN LBS OF CAVE IN THE ROCK SWITHGRASS. AS A COMPLETE ROOKIE I DIDN'T DO ANYTING ELSE. NO WEED CONTROL OF ANY KIND(STUPID). AS OF THIS PAST OCT. THE WEEDS ARE 3' TALL. ON A 1/4 OF THE PLOT THERE IS A GRASS THAT LOOKS LIKE SWITCHGRASS ABOUT 30" TALL. IS THAT POSSIBLE? SINCE I HAVE NEVER SEEN SWITCHGRASS UP CLOSE I CANT TELL. MY BIGGEST CONCERN IS THAT BY LETTING THE WEEDS GET THAT FAR OUT OF CONTROL IN THE FIRST YEAR OF PLANTING WILL THE SWITCHGRASS SURVIVE. THIS SPRING I AM GOING TO SPRAY 2QTS ATRAZINE AROUND 1ST WEEK IN APRIL AND 1PT 24D WHEN THINGS START TO GREEN UP. THIS PLOT IS GOING TO BE A BEDDING GROUND FOR DEER. ANY AND ALL HELP WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECIATED.

THANK YOU!

Welcome to IW


It's very possible you have some switchgrass there and it may thicken if you control the weeds/grass.

If nothing else clipping it 8-10" high will help the first and second year. There should be plenty of close up pics in this thread that show the seed head of switchgrass, otherwise it's sometimes hard for the novice to tell switchgrass from other grasses.

 

[Greshamgoose]

I live in Michigan and would like to plant switchgrass. From what I have been reading here Feb. or Mar. would be a good time to plant? Can I just broadcast the seed on to a harvested soybean field? Then spray it with atrazne?

 

[dbltree]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: greshamgoose</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I live in Michigan and would like to plant switchgrass. From what I have been reading here Feb. or Mar. would be a good time to plant? Can I just broadcast the seed on to a harvested soybean field? Then spray it with atrazne? </div></div>

You bet!! In fact your situation is perhaps one of the very best to frost seed switchgrass into. The bare soil left from the previous crop of soybeans makes an ideal planting surface.

You can either broadcast or use a no-till drill and seed into the frozen crust. I prefer bare ground but a little snow cover won't hurt anything.

Atrazine will control weeds the first year and give your new switchgrass a great start! I prefer to go heavy at about 4 quarts per acre on heavy soil....lighter sandy soils may require less. You can't use to much atrazine as far as the switch is concerned. I'm not a fan of heavy atrazine use because our water is already contaminated with it, but switchgrass makes a great buffer to soak up runoff like a sponge, so a one time application on the heavy side will be worth it in the long run.

 

[dbltree]

Just a couple pics of Cave In Rock switchgrass on my place and how it is holding up despite the miserable winter we have been having.

None of my switchgrass has went flat compared to the NWSG mix which has entire areas flat as a pancake.

Some areas of pure switchgrass for winter cover you can count on will make a great addition to your wildlife management program.

 

[SDWC]

Great looking switchgrass dbltree. Couple questions.I planted a switchgrass plot last march,about 1 acre. Half of it is about
30''tall the other half is about 2' tall with quit a few weeds.
I am going to mow it this week with a dr mower.It has a fixed blade height of 4''.

1.Would that cutting height be ok?

2.Iam going to have it all sprayed with atrazine this spring just don't know what time frame to spray it.


THANKS

 

[dbltree]

Originally Posted By: SDBC
Great looking switchgrass dbltree. Couple questions.I planted a switchgrass plot last march,about 1 acre. Half of it is about
30''tall the other half is about 2' tall with quit a few weeds.
I am going to mow it this week with a dr mower.It has a fixed blade height of 4''.

1.Would that cutting height be ok?

2.Iam going to have it all sprayed with atrazine this spring just don't know what time frame to spray it.


THANKS

This time of year mowing height isn't going to have much of an impact, it's during the growing season that one must be careful.


If you mow this summer then keep the mower at 8-12" high or even higher to just clip the tops of growing weeds with out impacting the base of the growing switchgrass.

Burning in late spring after cool season grasses have started growing but just before the native grasses start to come to life is even better of course.

Atrazine is a residual herbicide so it should be sprayed on perhaps mid to late April before weeds/grasses start to emerge. After switchgrass has 3-4 leaves on it in the summer you can spray 2-4D to kill broadleaf type weeds which is a better bet then mowing. 2-4Dis fairly inexspensive and available at places like TSC for instance.

 

[SDWC]

Thanks dbltree

 

[dbltree]

Re: Switchgrass - Frost seeding

It's the first of March, freezing at night and thawing during the day...perfect weather and conditions for frost seeding switchgrass!
Ideal surface conditions have as little trash as possible such as with soybean stubble or wheat stubble.

Closely grazed pasture is also ideal because it has less surface trash and pre-fertilized!

The less trash the better when frost seeding...

Heavy trash/sod is less then ideal but late winter snow and hevy spring rains will work the small seed down to the soil surface.

The ideal way to prepare sod for frost seeding is to mow it late in the summer, spray with roundup in early fall to allow for a good kill and then frost seed in Feb/March.

The alternitive is to seed now and spray at first greenup...less then ideal but it can work with careful timing.

Killing the sod in the fall gives the stubble time to break down while leaving roots to hold soil on HEL and you won't have thick surface trash like this...

Couple types of hand seeders that work well for small acreages or areas inaccessable to a tractor and drill.

Be sure to use a seeder with a small opening to better control seed.

and set the seeder on the lowest setting

A bag seeder works well also

but use care to set the adjustment knob...

also to a very narrow opening before filling it with seed...

Cave In Rock Switchgrass is my favorite in Iowa for tall rank bedding/winter cover...

Switchgrass seed is small and "running"...

compared to NWSG seed which is fluffy and very difficult to seed...

Bring a long something to "dip" seed into your seeder...

Seed is fairly easy to see against bare ground...

Freezing/thawing action will help the seed make soil contact and cold winter rains will help stratify the seed and increase germination rates.

A drill will cut thru trash but can also cause "hair pinning" of seed which actually may lesson soil/seed contact in some cases. A drill however makes for far more uniform seed coverage then broadcasting it. Both methods when done in late winter can make for a good robust stand of switchgrass and both will work for mixed NWSG stands as well.

The next step is to kill this sod with roundup as soon as grasses green up but before the switchgrass seed germinates. Usually not until late May to mid June depending on weather conditions.